Who WOULDN'T pick Blu-Ray??? (1 Viewer)

[Kelly Grannell]

It's called "proper English grammar". The format is called "Blu-ray Disc" and NOT "Blu-Ray", hence the abbreviation: BD.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

So, the hi-def format you want is download-only? Microsoft will be pleased...you are doing EXACTLY what Bill Gates wants you to do...it's the reason why MS is supporting HD DVD -- to help keep the format war alive in order to discourage the marketplace from establishing a physical format type.

 

[Paul_Scott]

much less zealotry here than some other places i've seen.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

And it is cooler on Venus than in Hell. That doesn't mean I'd like to move there.

My post was mostly meant as a light-hearted bit of tweaking, with maybe a tiny germ of seriouness. The downright grim, testy and humorless responses it has drawn make my point that there is more than enough zealotry here, thank you very much. Lucky I didn't post a cartoon about hi-def DVD formats, there might be riots outside my condo.

Seriously people, chill. It's only TV and movies.

Regards,

Joe

 

[TravisR]

HE'S A WITCH!!!!!

 

[Paul_Scott]

i always thought i have pretty good sarcasm radar, but you musta been flying damn low on the second to the last post, Joe.

and please, lets all keep our Grammars out of this. mines in poor health and i don't think its funny.

 

[Kelly Grannell]

1. it's not funny
2. You wrote Blu-Ray, that is not considered abbreviations and it's bad grammar, it's supposed to be Blu-ray
3. No, it's still should be BD (unless Sony calls it Blu Ray Disc, then it becomes BRD)

 

[DaViD Boulet]

There are already pages and pages of discussion about these topics at AVS. No need to try to re-argue everything here. Suffice to say that the industry's take on a failed attempt at both proposed formats will signal that the public does not want *any* pre-recorded HD format. Here's your chance. Next option will be downloading.

Microsoft has been working on models for media-free distribution which is their long-range plan, and there is good reason to believe that most of their reason for backing HD DVD isn't about actually wanting that format to "win" as much as it's about trying to keep the market place confused to keep either format from really taking off. If HD DVD/BD turned out to be like SACD and DVD-A that would make Bill Gates very happy.

 

[george kaplan]

David, with all due respect, BS.

This is clearly your opinion, but it is not fact. We don't know how the industry would take it.

If they take my vote, which means "No to two formats engaging in a stupid format war, with too much Draconian copy bullshit included", as a vote against hard media, and for download, then they're stupid. I'll almost certainly buy into HD at some point, but I will NEVER go the download/pay-per-view route.

They may indeed be that stupid, but we can hope not.

On the other hand, you're assuming that by buying a Blu-Ray machine, that you're voting for a particular hard media in it's idealized state. Don't be surprised if all you end up doing is buying the latest version of an 8-track tape machine.

You may be right, but you may not be right.

If the very rich Hollywood studios want to see how I and others feel about hard media versus download, then if they have any brains at all, they won't do it based on the results of HD sales during a format war, but just do the damned marketing research and ask us!

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Personally, I hope that *you're* right!

I'd rather have 100 gigs 4K resolution holographic storage on a stamp-sized crystal than either BD or HD DVD...so if this try doesn't work I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Only time will tell...

 

[Ed St. Clair]

Yes. I "get it" that a 1080i transfer has to be done "properly" to match a 1080p transfer. Do you "Get It"?!?!?! How many displays today can "properly" deinterlace 1080i? Not many. You of all people should know about "bobbing". So quit trying to dismiss others concerns over this matter.

So,
Will you stop it already!

If you think the tone of this post is rude, I was just trying to match the wording from your post. Hope I succeeded in doing so.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Ed,

I've been helpful and accurate. Despite sharing facts which make the "1080I" issue effectivly moot, I continue to see the same posters ask over and over "will HD DVD be 1080P?" as though the many posts by members clarifying the question have never been shared. I just can't figure out what's so hard here.

AVS is not an "unspoken forum". It's a forum where experts in the audio/video world share what they know and typically far surpasses HTF in terms of technical depth.

In a few short years there will be HD players that apply 3-2 pulldown to 1080I content to "properly" deinterlace film like we have deinterlacing with 480P DVD players today. It will be no big deal...and 1080P playback will be derived from any 1080I signal mastered from film (barring excessive filtering during mastering...which is the only thing we really have to worry about but that could happen with real "1080P" mastered content too). The same displays currently available that con't have 3-2 pulldown for 1080I input don't accept 1080P input anyway so that is irrelevent and has nothing to do with the discussion.

An affordable 1080P HD DVD player would make real "1080P" out of all film-based 1080I HD DVDs...were there any discs that happened to be encoded in 1080I form...but, Given that the technicians who are actually COMPRESSING the HD content for HD DVD using VC1 have TOLD US (over at that AVS forum) that the codec automatically encodes film material in 1080P form should make this even *less* of an issue. Why then do you keep asking over and over like this information is not being shared???



Those are the facts. I've just tried to help. Insist on making things more difficult if you wish.

 

[Ed St. Clair]

David,

Thanks for your thoughtful answer.

The facts are that 1080i to 1080p is not easy, affordable, or successful all the time. Many of us can not afford (pun intended) to make a mistake with our A/V purchases. Therefore this issue is far from "moot" to those of us without unlimited funds.

You said all HD discs would be 1080p, while the Tosh rep I spoke to personally, twice stated that all HD-DVD disc would be 1080i.

And you don't want people (me) to make things "difficult" by trying to find out about a future potential purchase?

Your good, very good, however what if you are wrong about something? It could happen. I'm sure you don't think you have ALL the answers. And that's OK, because no one person does.

What about those HT fans that today own "bobbed" displays. They will never get 1080i resolution from their 1080i displays. I am sure they all wished they had much more information before they wasted their money on inferior displays.

Why are you putting your foot down to stop us from addressing this matter or any other matter? You have stated what you wish to say on this subject, according to you many, many times. Unfortunately, your many posts have not satisfied everyone concerns. Hope that is understandable to you.

Appreciate your input as always, just I need more sources than you alone can provide.

No hard feelings. Just I want/need more hard facts.

 

[JediFonger]

you'd trust a salesman over an HT-fan?

isn't that a classic phrase, "never trust a salesman"?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I'd be surprised if the Toshiba Reps even know the difference between 1080I and 1080P. I'm certain they know NOTHING about the nature of disc encoding...specifically technical issues behind the way the VC1 compression codec compresses native 24 fps film material versus live 1080I feed...

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Spend some time over at the AVS forum and read the more technical discussions about these topics (if I come accross any quick links I'll post them but the time I take to look for them is the time you could take to read the AVS thread directly). Literally, a guys who is actually COMPRESSING movies for HD DVD posted in that thread that because of the way that the VC1 codec works, they were encoding/compressing all of their film-based content as 1080P. Doesn't *that* have more weight with you than what some know-nothing sales-guy for Toshiba has to say? Suffice to say that the Toshiba Rep KNOWS NOTHING about the technical aspects of how the VC1 codec works...so his comments should not affect your concerns.

Again...future HD DVD players that use 3-2 pulldown to deinterlace 1080I content will make the matter of disc-encoding moot as they'll output true 1080P from all 1080 movie discs...whether or not they're *encoded* as 1080P. Same goes for Blu-ray. Yes, at the moment most displays just do bob/weave to deinterlace 1080I but expect this to change for film-based material on most high-end displays (supposedly, some of the new 1080P SXRD rear projection TVs do 3-2 pulldown). HOWEVER as long as a display can *accept* 1080P, then a 1080P HD DVD player or Blu-ray player that uses 3-2 will do the trick.

the most important thing for anyone who cares about 1080P is to purchase a display that can ACCEPT 1080P input and a HD player that can output it.


p.s. keep in mind that want to see HD DVD totally FLOP so that Blu-ray can emerge as the better format and this silly format war can come to an end. The fact I'm still here advocating for HD DVD being 1080P should indicate to you that I'm really serious about this and not making it up. If there were any doubt, believe me, I'd be making it known!

 

[Jesse Blacklow]

The thing is, all evidence points to them being exactly that stupid. At this point 3 Microsoft execs/reps (Bill Gates, Peter Moore, and Amir Majidimehr) have stated that their desire for an end to physical media, and that this next generation will be the last gasp. Studios and distributors are moving towards digital delivery as we speak (look at Moviebeam and recent DirecTV developments), even though our current infratstructure can only handle "good enough" quality. The government's clueless or bought off when it comes to digital rights, digital transitions, and broadband, and the software industry now wants to take over the consumer electronics industry. All this points to exactly the problems that David pointed out. As much as I'd like to see the good side of digital delivery, it just doesn't match up with the quality we would like to see.

 

[george kaplan]

Well Jesse, if that's the case, then I guess I'll just sit back and watch my dvd collection the rest of my life. I'm sure as hell never going to a pay-per-view system. I don't necessarily need a physical media, but I do need ownership, and while I'm perfectly happy with having mp3 songs on my ipod and on my computer, I don't see that as feasible with movies. In other words, it's not the downloading per se that bothers me, it's the redownloading. I'll download a movie once if I own it and can watch it (on my tv, not on my computer) whenever I want, but I don't see that happening. Thank God I've got enough dvds to last me a lifetime if that's what it takes.

 

[Nils Luehrmann]

At Monday's HD DVD demo in Concord, California (Bay Area) the "Toshiba Rep" knew almost nothing about the product and often stated things that were clearly incorrect. He left everyone with the impression that he was simply a temp from a marketing agency with very little, to no knowledge on consumer electronic technology.

I cannot speak for any of the other HD DVD demos, but if they are anything like the one in Concord then I feel it is safe to say the "Toshiba Reps" are "Temp Reps" hired for these promotional events.

 

[FrancisP]

I would expect the rep to know very little about the technical aspects of this. I would not expect Toshiba's technical people to be doing a dog and pony show. This is a demo only. I know Dan Ramer of dvdfile asked these questions and was told that the technical people would contact him regarding these questions. We'll see if that happens.