What's new

Who wants one of these 18"ers??? (1 Viewer)

chris_hunigan

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
Messages
89
Jim,
I like the idea of roughly 3 cubes PR/Vented...Good ideal box size!

"1.5kW RMS is a small snack for the beast. You should just plug it right into the wall...that'll suit it fine"

Hollly smokes!!!!!!!!!!!! Then we maybe talking 3000 WRMS / coil!

Also what is the expected weight going to be?

Cree
 

Chris Tsutsui

Screenwriter
Joined
Feb 1, 2002
Messages
1,865
The initial T/S Specs lead me to believe that this sub is a Car Audio sub that can use a smaller box, but doesn't have real deep extension. It has plenty of power handling and great sensitivity, but how does it sound when it's playing loud?

If it can feed off a bridged K2 with minimal distortion, I think this driver could be a real hit, especially if it has 91db sensitivity!

If they retail for $500, with a pre-order close to $300, then I'd highly consider a pre-buy. I would just like to know if it will have better SQ than a Tumult at the same output levels.
 

Jack Gilvey

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 13, 1999
Messages
4,948
Read Db's posts, the answers are there. Has plenty of extension in my models, but really deep stuff wants sealed/LT...like just about all drivers.
 

JimRHIT

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
113
"It has plenty of power handling and great sensitivity, but how does it sound when it's playing loud?"

All in the box and the quality of power supplied...if those are done right ... this beast won't do you wrong.

"If it can feed off a bridged K2 with minimal distortion, I think this driver could be a real hit, especially if it has 91db sensitivity!"
- not many drivers you know of that can do this eh?

"If they retail for $500, with a pre-order close to $300, then I'd highly consider a pre-buy."
- Just take some time to browse and see how much an 18" driver w/ 30+mm one way would cost you. Let alone getting you one that you can have some good input on its final specs. This is a hell of a deal as it sits.
This is not your typical pre-order, we just need to have the money up front so that we can prepay for these one-time drivers.
Yeah, I wish it were $300...then I would be getting two, but $500 for one (in my mind) after seeing this beast has made it worth it.

Hope that clears a few things up,
Jim
- and back to studying for finals....only 2 more!!!!
 

Bill Fagal

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
166
- Just take some time to browse and see how much an 18" driver w/ 30+mm one way would cost you. Let alone getting you one that you can have some good input on its final specs. This is a hell of a deal as it sits.
Heartily agreed.

Doing a little mental arithmetic, I am confident that your margin, if it exists at all, is vanishingly thin, considering the component and build costs. And does your expense sheet even include the hours of R&D/FEA? Since you're enthusiasts and likely did it for kicks, I doubt it.

What I think we have here, folks, is a very poor business model that translates into an utter bargain for the buyer.

I'm just worried you guys will get burned out and tired of making no profit and quit before coming out with the Beast MkIII. ;)

(Note: I have no connection to or investment in these fellas, just calling it as I see it.)

Bill
 

JimRHIT

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jul 11, 2001
Messages
113
Thanks Bill,
So how many ya ordering ?? :b

Profit margin on this is non-existent. Like dB said, he designed this a WHILE ago...his once famed Aura killer is finally availible to us at a heck of a deal.

Adios,
jim
- only one more final to go!!!!!
 

Bill Fagal

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
166
So how many ya ordering ??
Well...I just wish I could justify one (or two), but I can't. :b

I'm putting a big chunk of change toward prototyping my own concept driver (70mm Xmag, 80mm Xsus, secret high-zoot surround & suspension), so I can't allow my dollars to be distracted by other beauties that come strolling by. But I'm still happy to proclaim that you guys seem to be offering a killer deal.

Mo' pawr to ya!
Bill
 

Mike Strassburg

Second Unit
Joined
Nov 4, 2001
Messages
421
How would 2 off these work in an IB set-up?? I would be willing to buy them now and put aside for a few years until we move.

I DEFINITELY want to go IB in the new house, so what do you guys think? If they would work, how much power am I looking at? TIA...Mike
 

EdmondZ

Auditioning
Joined
May 27, 2003
Messages
3
Hello
I put the TS paramteres of the BeastII from the web site into WINISD to compare it to a Shiva or Tempest. I get some pretty lousy results with both sealed and vented .
The best I can get is 3 db down at 38Hz with a 72L box with a port tuned to 38Hz.
What gives? Any hints in designing a better box?


EdmondZ
Montreal
 

EdmondZ

Auditioning
Joined
May 27, 2003
Messages
3
Just an afterthough. This seems like a sub designed for low volume car user. Not for big volume home sub.


EdmondZ
 

chris_hunigan

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
Messages
89
EdmondZ has a point. Yes it favors a driver faithfully towards the car audio crowd, due to its small Vas and small box size, whether ported or sealed.

Now for down right deep-low bass, the box size would have to be increased, as Seth mentioned. For example, I have my Resonant Engineering HC12 sub, that is mostly suitable for vented boxes. By default the F3 is very high. Somewhere in the 50 Hz range. Now you can place the sub in a smaller enclosure, something like 1.5 cubes, but may not get the deep bass and full potential of the sub. However, when I dropped it in 2 cubes tuned to 35 Hz, I get an F3 around 30 Hz, in which the bass that I hear goes absolutely deep.

So the intent of DB and Jim, were to make a sub that has the ability to play loud, low, and require a tiny box (for an 18" driver)... Come on, 2.5~3 cubes on the bare minimium side, while you can go upwards of 8 cubes. This sub models very well for both home and car audio.

Also cabin gain will work wonders even if the curve is flat.

Cree
 

Noed*B

Grip
Joined
May 15, 2003
Messages
18
"I get some pretty lousy results with both sealed and vented ."

Try 6 cubes tuned to 16hz with a 30hz lpf1 and the standard 80hz lpf2. 3dB down points of 16hz and 80hz.

I'll post LEAP sims of various box's to the web sight.

"What gives? Any hints in designing a better box? ~~ Just an afterthought. This seems like a sub designed for low volume car user. Not for big volume home sub."

You are halfway correct. The biggest problem with theBeast was that too many people did NOT want 12 cube box's in their homes. I designed this driver to be capable of use in very very small (relative to an 18" driver) enclosures. Essentially it tracks the response of the Tumult in the same enclosure volume within a fraction of a dB. Either driver merely requires a modicum of creative crossover work to make them 100% flat through their respective pass bands.

It was NOT designed for automotive use, but because of it's incredible electromotive strength and suitability for smaller enclosures could be put to very good use in an automobile if desired.

dB
 

Jack Gilvey

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 13, 1999
Messages
4,948
As db points out, the "high" f3 points that some are disappointed by come from not seeing the whole curve and neglecting the effect of a LP crossover. Adding a LP at 80Hz keeps the f3 from being referenced to 200Hz.
 

Jack Gilvey

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 13, 1999
Messages
4,948
It's interesting to see how changing the Qes (and, consequently, Qts) by leaving 1 or more VCs open (what Adire calls RDO ) effects the resulting curves. I found that leaving one VC open (Qes = .39, Qts = .38) gave me some nice reflex alignments. I used a Qes of .52 to simulate two coils open (larger sealed boxes for a given Qtc, but nice responses). This lowers efficiency and PE though. You could eq these responses with the standard wiring, also, but using more power.
Any comments on this type of operation with this driver, or about the Qes numbers I used (not sure if they're valid)...Jim or dB?
 

Noed*B

Grip
Joined
May 15, 2003
Messages
18
Chris H "What's the weight of the Beast?"

89 lbs. 4 one inch tall by 10 inch o.d. magnets and the rest of the magnetic circuit weigh a BUNCH! :)

Mike D. "How would one of these compare to the Blueprint 1803?"

Never having measured or played with an 1803, I cannot comment. Do you have TSP's, coil and gap heights?


Jack G "It's interesting to see how changing the Qes (and, consequently, Qts) by leaving 1 or more VCs open (what Adire calls RDO ) effects the resulting curves. I found that leaving one VC open (Qes = .39, Qts = .38) gave me some nice reflex alignments. I used a Qes of .52 to simulate two coils open (larger sealed boxes for a given Qtc, but nice responses). This lowers efficiency and PE though. You could eq these responses with the standard wiring, also, but using more power.
Any comments on this type of operation with this driver, or about the Qes numbers I used (not sure if they're valid)...Jim or dB? "

"Without having ever used resistively damped open coils, I cannot really comment on it's effectiveness. Just off the top of my head, and this isn't intended to start a huge debate or argument I don't have time for, simply a couple off the cuff thoughts:

#1: If you open one or more coils, and either damp them or short the circuit, the open coil will generate some amount of electromotive force which will operate effectively as an electromagnetic brake (the force being 180dg opposite of the motion of the coil)as it is pushed through the gap by the other coil. Any movement of the coil through the gap, with the unused coil connected to itself will cause a current to run through the shorted coil (resistively shorted or otherwise) which will effectively damp (probably the source of the term?) the coil motion and work to rob energy from the coil or coils that are still in operation. My guess is this damping will increase with coil velocity, so you'd have variable damping dependant on freq and SPL. The harder you pushed it, the more damped the system would be.

#2: Additionally, there will be some loss as the shorted coil will begin to act as a transformer due to mutual inductance of the shorted magnetically coupled coil windings/(s) This probably not as significant as thought #1.

#3: As hard as we work to fill the gap with as much copper as possible it is senseless to effectively 'remove' the effect of much of that copper, since while not only is the shorted coil(s) working against the operating coil(s), it is also not contributing to the systems electromotive force in any way.

That said, I've never tried to play with resistively damping unused coils, it might be a fun way to mess with TSP's, but strikes me as gimmicky, kind of a Band-Aid to use something in a manor it wasn't intended to be used in in the first place.
 

Jack Gilvey

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Mar 13, 1999
Messages
4,948
Thanks...I've never considered any of that. :) I've only used RDO with some Adire DPL-12's in IB and dipole configs, and it seemed to work as expected, although I have no way of more thoroughly investigating what was going on.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
356,813
Messages
5,123,609
Members
144,184
Latest member
H-508
Recent bookmarks
1
Top