Who such little talk about the HSU TN Series???

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Bob_A, Feb 17, 2002.

  1. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    I have just seen the prices on these things...and I am wondering...how come nobody talks about these subwoofers??? You certainly hear a lot about the HSU VTF-2.
    HSU TN1225HO w/o amp = $359
    HSU TN1225HO w/ 150 watt amp = $559
    HSU TN1225HO w/ 250 watt amp = $709
    HSU TN1220HO w/o amp = $499
    HSU TN1220HO w/ 150 watt amp = $699
    HSU TN1220HO w/ 250 watt amp = $849
    The 500 watt amp with active crossover is $699.
    Apparently the HSU TN1220HO was measured to be -3db at 15Hz!
    Now...we have seen some TN performance data on the older 1225 (some years ago I believe)...and I have heard that these HSU subs have been much improved since.
    Dr. Hsu claims that these take up less floorspace than any other subwoofer he has seen (they do look pretty thin if you see the pictures on the website). http://www.hsuresearch.com/
    What do you guys think about these?
     
  2. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Oops...typo in the title...that should be "Why such..." [​IMG]
     
  3. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Maybe you should try a couple and get back to everyone with your thoughts Bob? I thought you were hyped up over the bp400 last week?,and what was it the week before,and the week before that...?
    www.hsuresearch.com
    I purchased four of them 3-4 years ago and even tried updating them with the *new* driver you mentioned..which is actually a couple of years old now. If you have any sincere questions about them...there's probably very few people who have experimented with them more than I have.
    I wonder what *amazing* new sub deal you'll find by next week,and the week after...might be a good betting poll for HTF?
    TV
     
  4. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    "Maybe you should try a couple and get back to everyone with your thoughts Bob?"

    Someday, if I move my setup to the basement, who knows? For now, I am just wondering...how come nobody talks about these things?
     
  5. Tyson

    Tyson Stunt Coordinator

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    Bob,

    Was curious - I know you have stated in the past that an external sub is not an option for you right now, but I can't remeber why - is it a space issue, or a WAF issue?

    A friend of mine has a HSU, and they are indeed impressive subs. I decided against HSU for a couple of reasons - 1st, they are top heavy, I wanted something with a bit more stability. 2nd, you HAVE to use the HSU amps, because the cylinders don't have enough internal volume to go "flat" to their tuning frequency w/out EQ. And the EQ really eats up headroom down low (only 1/4th of the power is available because of the 6db boost).

    With subs, you have a choice, you can either have a big box & generally modest power requirement, or a smaller box and much bigger power requirements (and generally EQ needed too, for a low tuning). HSU goes with a smaller "box", but really, IMO, the 500 watt amp is the minimum to get if you want BIG output down low. Otherwise the amp just runs out of headroom. . .
     
  6. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Hi Tyson,
    Not a space issue...but in the family room, an external sub will just not be allowed by the woman in the house [​IMG]
    I thought that Dr. Hsu has made some major improvements in the design of these TN subwoofers (including upgraded drivers and new amps). Will they (the new models) really not run well with the 150W or 250W amp? The older TN1225HO w/ 250W amp seemed to do very well in the TN test performed some years ago. Also, wouldn't a TN1225HO w/ 150W amp outperform a VTF-2 noticeably, with just a little difference in price (ok, maybe not a little when you look at it in terms of percentages, but it's only $60 difference)?
     
  7. Tyson

    Tyson Stunt Coordinator

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    Bob,

    What about building a sub to be used as an "end table". Perfectly camoflouged and can be made to look VERY nice. A blueprint driver is only $230 or so, and can be put in to something the size of an end table, and will give a HUGE ammount of bass. Since you already have mains that are very capable in the mid bass, you can configure the sub to only handle the VERY low bass. All you would need is a strong amp & you are set.

    Yes, the newer HSU drivers have been upgraded to give more output. But, you simply can't get around Hoffman's Iron law. They still need EQ to stay flat. And that eats up amp power like crazy. So, you really need a big amp to power it. Compared to the very same woofer in a larger enclosure with the same tuning, you will get similar or more output down low, and with a less powerfull amp. That's just how it works.

    Now, will the 1220 outperform the VTF-2? Almost certainly. A larger woofer equals more swept volume, which equals higher output. The 150 watt amp will probably give slightly better ouptput down low, at the same time as having MUCH more headroom than the VTF-2 above 30hz or so. But with a bigger amp, the 1220 should be able to distance itself quite a bit from the VTF-2 in the 20-30hz range. More amp headroom (in this case) equals more output down low.
     
  8. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    One more thing...if you go to HSU's website and click on "Reviews"...you will find several reviews on the HSU TN subs using only 150 watt amps...and some of these reviews are years old, so they must have used the older model TN sub and amp, which apparently has been improved significantly.
     
  9. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    More bass in the family room, huh Tyson? [​IMG] You know what? She already thinks that the loudspeakers shake things enough! But in the basement, it wouldn't be a big deal I think.
     
  10. Tyson

    Tyson Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm not sure what you are trying to say here Bob. Is the 1220 w/150 watts a capable performer? Yes it is. That is not at issue here. The issue is that it would be an EVEN BETTER performer with a larger enclosure and no EQ boost.

    You also have to remember that several years ago, the HSU's were one of the very few truly high output subs around. Most other subs were, to put it bluntly, whimps. In comparison, the HSU, even w/ a 150 watt amp must have seemed like a monster. To put it in perspective, a 150 watt amp used in the HSU sub and EQ boosted 6db below 30hz, has only 35 watts available headroom in the 20-30hz range (each 3db boost eats up half your amp's power, so 6db of boost on a 150watt amp equals 35 watts available after the boost). That is the reason why a big amp is desirable for a sub that is EQ boosted, it equals more headroom in the area that the EQ boost is applied.

    The HSU subs are still a great value, but for optimum performance, a big amp is needed. You can "get by" with a smaller amp, but the smaller amp won't give you all the potential the HSU subs are capable of.
     
  11. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Sure a bigger amp will provide better performance. Do you know anyone who has compared the 150W, 250W, and 500W amp on their HSU sub? I'm just trying to get an idea about how much real-world "perceived" performance would or could be affected with these new models. It is a difficult question to answer definitively, I know.
     
  12. Tyson

    Tyson Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, you would simply have less output down low. If you never heard a sub that was truly flat at high levels, you probably would never notice it in the "real world". But if you have heard a sub capable of high output to 20hz or below (flat), then you certainly would notice it. For the former person, the smaller amps would be fine. For the latter person, the 500 watter would be the way to go.
     
  13. Robert Lovejoy

    Robert Lovejoy Stunt Coordinator

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    I am looking at the Hsu 1225 and was told the 150 watt amp is no longer available for it, FWIW...
     
  14. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    Are you sure? They have no plans to keep a 150W amp?
     
  15. Greg Br

    Greg Br Second Unit

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    >I have just seen the prices on these things...and I am wondering...how come nobody talks about these subwoofers??? You certainly hear a lot about the HSU VTF-2.

    I am not sure Bob, but it does not help that many of the people on this particular forum use the SVS cylander sub. I supposes one could reason that if no one talks about such a great bargin for performance sub that it may not be any good. I have not heard them either way, but usually people talk about the products that interest them the most, or that are in play the most.
     
  16. ling_w

    ling_w Second Unit

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  17. Mark KU

    Mark KU Stunt Coordinator

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    From highly placed sources, I've found out that next week the "who so little talk about...." subwoofer will be an obscure Velodyne model. The week after it may be the AudioSource SW15. After that, Bob may even branch out into DIY.

    And remember, this will be cross-posted to at least 4 different forums, so you should have no problems at all finding out about these new and upcoming subs.
     
  18. Greg Br

    Greg Br Second Unit

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    Ling,

    I do not believe that either, just throwing out reasons to Bobs weekly subwoofer that is not talked about, I really have no idea why they are not talked about especialy if they are such a good bang for your buck speaker. I am sure it is a fine product. I know if more people talked about them I would have considered them before I purhcased my subs. Word of mouth is the most powerful advertisement there is, I will take it over some printed jargon on a website any day.
     
  19. Tony Genovese

    Tony Genovese Supporting Actor

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    Rather than waste his time here in theoretical discussions with Bob and his ilk, Dr. Hsu spends his time developing, building and selling his subwoofers. His is an established company (it's been around for approximately 10 years) and his subwoofers have received many excellent reviews over the years. In addition, he advertises in Stereophile, Absolute Sound, Sensible Sound, PerfectVision, etc.

    When I bought my subs, there was no SVS, and so I was basically limited to Hsu in a high output, high value sub. I actually prefer the smaller footprint. They can be more easily tucked into a corner or laid down behind a couch.

    With regard to the issue of equalization, in most rooms, with room gain, it is not needed. Using my Infinity RABOS sound pressure meter, I measure flat to 20hz WITHOUT equalization. And I've done this in two different rooms, one that was 2000 cubic feet and the other 3,000. You do need to cut off the sub below 15 to prevent subsonics from killing it. My Symetrix 551 allows me to do just that and also reduce the nasty 80hz and 40hz peaks that the 3000 cubic foot room produces. Dr. Hsu does sell an EQ box for around $100 to take care of that (and give you the correct alignment if you feel you need it).
     
  20. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

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    "Also, regarding Hsu's rolloff and lack of low end headroom, the 6th order overdamped design, which causes a premature rolloff, actually allows a higher efficiency in the >40hz region. That also means at 20hz, it does not require 4x the power, but at 40hz, it requires 1/4 the power.

    Plus, the price of the Hsu'c could be had at a lower price than the ones posted on their website."

    Thank you for this information, Ling.

    "With regard to the issue of equalization, in most rooms, with room gain, it is not needed. Using my Infinity RABOS sound pressure meter, I measure flat to 20hz WITHOUT equalization. And I've done this in two different rooms"

    Thank you for this information, Tony.
     

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