who makes the best reciever with front a/v

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Evan A, Aug 1, 2001.

  1. Evan A

    Evan A Stunt Coordinator

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    who makes the best receiver for about $500 with front a/v or w/o front a/v for $400? (100 less to buy external svid box w/ front input)
    Does the $400 one beat the $500 one?
    Priority:
    1) Drive Ascend Acoustic Speakers 4ohm max load speakers
    2) DPL II - Onkyo 595 or Kenwood 510
    3) THX select - Kenwood 510 (I know I know I want the damn logo!)
    4) On Screen Display
    5) Inputs
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    Evan Adams
    [email protected]
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  2. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Screenwriter

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    The Harman/Kardon AVR110 and 210 feature A/V, S-Video and even coaxial and optical digital inputs on the front panel.
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  3. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Marantz 6200 has A/V (not sure if any are digital), including S-vid, on the front, and OSD, but not THX Sel.
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    All progress is based upon a universal, inate desire on the part of every organism, to live beyond it's income.
    ITRCA ** Honda/Acura Club ** Speedring (sorry, car guy)
     
  4. Carol Curtis

    Carol Curtis Stunt Coordinator

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    If you have to have Dolby pro-logic II & front inputs in the under $500 range right now, you have no choice except for the Kenwood's.
     
  5. Evan A

    Evan A Stunt Coordinator

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    Kenwood has told me that the 510 will only drive 8ohms and the soverign will only drive 6ohms. Remember those #'s are in priority so 1, 4, and 5 with one 2 or 3 would be better than just 2.
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    Evan Adams
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  6. Evan A

    Evan A Stunt Coordinator

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    yea sean is a Rock Star!
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    Evan Adams
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  7. Evan A

    Evan A Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank you for writing to us at Kenwood USA Corporation.
    The VR-510 and 5080 receivers are not intended to support a 4 ohm ohm load.
    The 510 can handle an impedance of no less than 8 ohms. The 5080 receiver
    can handle no less than 6 ohms.
    If you have any further questions or need help with anything, please feel
    free to contact us again.
    ************************************************** **************************
    *******
    Kenwood U.S.A. Corporation
    Stage 3 Consumer Services
    P.O. Box 22745
    Long Beach, CA 90801-5745
    Brian Johnson
    Consumer Service Representative
    E-mail for Kenwood USA Corporation: http://www.kenwoodusa.com/support/email_support.jsp
    Phone: 800-536-9663
    Fax: 310-631-3913
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    Evan Adams
    [email protected]
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  8. PaulW

    PaulW Stunt Coordinator

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    If I'm not mistaken I thought THX receivers had to be able to drive all the way down to 3 ohm loads? Where did i read this... can't remember........ this is the first THX receiver only driving 8 ohms when MANY THX speakers are 6 ohm or lower. My Onkyo THX speakers are 6 ohms, the M & K 750 system is 4 ohms...... if it can only drive 8 ohms we have a serious problem.
    PaulW
     
  9. Ben M

    Ben M Auditioning

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    I am apologizing ahead of time if just in case I offend someone.
    To Sean Con: Wow, you do have very very much to learn! First off, under no circumstances do you ever put a resistor (or capacitor which is what you are referring to) in series with a speaker. This greatly affects the internal crossover in the speaker and in turn completely changes the way the speaker sounds...
    Now... what "your boss" said to do was to add a "milar cap", this is not a resistor but a "mylar capacitor". Putting this in series with a speaker creates a 6db/octave High pass filter (which rolls of the low frequencies). Yes, this will raise the impedance of the speaker at lower frequencies BUT at the expense of GREATLY changing the way a speaker sounds.
    Now, regarding impedance. I am repeating myself on this board over and over...... 8 ohms, 6 ohms, 4 ohms... ridiculous! Speaker impedance VARIES WITH FREQUENCY. The impedance of a speaker, ANY SPEAKER, will vary from about 3 ohms to 20 ohms from 20hz to 20khz. The only way to quantify the impedance rating of a speaker is to rate it at it's minimum impedance. Nominal impedance, like many other specifications in this industry MEANS NOTHING!
    If you have your doubts, go to the stereophile website and LOOK at the impedance curves from many 8ohm rated speakers and 4 ohm rated speakers... SEE ANY DIFFERENCES??? Look at the minimum impedances... Many 8ohm rated speakers have lower minimum impedances than 4ohm rated speakers, this is what the important specification is which is the ENTIRE REASON speaker manufacturers (except a few) don't use this. If they say their speaker has a minimum impedance of 3.2 ohms, they will lose a considerable amount of sales. So they say, well it has a nominal impedance of 8ohms... HA.. It is a joke and you are all falling for it!
    To the above poster regarding THX specifications. You are 100% correct. A THX certified receiver MUST be able to drive a 3.2 ohm load at full power without overheating for 45 minutes. This is a true torture test and any receiver that has the THX certification can easily drive so called "4 ohm rated" speakers all day long.
    Evan... stop being concerned with impedance. Find out what the MINIMUM impedance of the speaker is and at what frequency does it hit that minimum. If a speaker manufacturer can not provide you this data ( or they don't want to for fear of a lost sale ) than that is something to think about.
    Sean... you and your home theater installer boss need to attend a few electronic night classes in your spare time.
    I'm outta here...
     
  10. Evan A

    Evan A Stunt Coordinator

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    ben, ascend do not rate their speakers at an average ohm load. Rather they just say that they guarontee that their speaker will not drop below 4ohms. So then prettymuch anything is cool then. awesome!
    Thanks all
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    Evan Adams
    [email protected]
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  11. Evan A

    Evan A Stunt Coordinator

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    hmmmmmmmm I just stumbled uppon the Marantz SR5200.
    DPLII, Front svid inputs, DTS-ES and the MSRP is less than the 510, and it is beautiful.
    hmmmmmmmmm
    off to audioreview to check out what people say
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    Evan Adams
    [email protected]
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  12. Ben M

    Ben M Auditioning

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    Ok...
    Please excuse my lengthy post here. But, I feel the need to educate further.
    A few examples below of the absolutely ridiculous so called "nominal impedance" rating...
    OK here we go..
    Here is the impedance curve of the very popular JBL S38 speaker.. This speaker is rated at 8ohms nominal impedance. Note, the impedance is the solid line
    [​IMG]
    Clearly the impedance of the speaker varies from higher than 20 ohms to 4 ohms. Actually, this is a very poor impedance curve indicating some sort of resonance occuring at around 2khz.
    Ok here is a an expensive PSB speaker which is rated at 4ohms nominal impedance..
    [​IMG]
    This speaker will actually be a much easier load to drive for an amplifier then the above 8ohm rated speaker. Notice the impedance only dips to 4 ohms at 200hz and remains at an easy 6 ohms in the upper mids and highs. The supposed 8ohm JBL is clearly at 4ohms at the higher frequencies.
    And yet another... Here is a very expensive Revel speaker
    [​IMG]
    This speaker is rated at a nominal 6ohm impedance yet it obviously has a much lower impedance than the above 4ohm rated speaker.
    Here is one more to prove my point... This is the icing on the cake.. The hugely popular Paradigm Studio 100. Paradigm rates this speaker at an 8ohm "compatible" impedance. Whatever that means...
    [​IMG]
    It is quite obvious that this speaker has the lowest minimum impedance of all of my examples. It will hit 3 ohms at 100hz and will present a difficult load to many amps.
    Heck, to quote reviewer Robert Deutsch of stereophile: "...The impedance, however, drops below 4 ohms between 55Hz and 210Hz, with a minimum value of 3 ohms at 90Hz (fig.1). A good 4 ohm-rated amplifier should be used with the speaker."
    I hope I have educated with all of this impedance nonsense. The nominal impedance rating of a speaker is ALL MARKETING and it absolutely does not represent any way to represent the load an amplifier will see. If you are even concerned with impedance (and in some cases you should be) ask the speaker manufactuer for an impedance curve, or at the least, ask for the minimum impedance specification. If they do not supply this you should be concerned.
    Under no circumstances let the nominal impedance rating of a speaker determine if a speaker is compatible with an amp/receiver or not.
    You must obtain more information for this and most speaker manufacturers will shy away from providing this information.
    Now regarding Ascend. Those guys actually sent me the impedance curve of their CBM-170 speaker. It was an easy load for any amplifier and if I had a scanner I would post it here as comparison sake as well. Evan, if you are still concerned, ask for the specs.
    As for the rest of the readers of my post, I hope this sinks in!
     
  13. MatthewJ S

    MatthewJ S Supporting Actor

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    wow, I just have to interject...I don't mean to get people who own kenwood & pioneer elite in an uproar, but it is because (largely ) of these two brands that I have become less than enamored with THX certification. I have found that when comparing their amps to others in their same price range (denon,yamaha,sony db&es,etc.) that they come up short when it comes to driving lower efficiancy speakers full range. I would have to think that the elite(which I have been playing with daily for a much longer time) would only be reaching ref. levels with very high distortion levels,because just to make them demo reasonably loud we have to almost peg the volume contrrol, forget running 2 sets of speakers (a& b) at thesame time. In fact it was one of the reps who said in response to this "who really runs them full range anymore anyway"....I am curios, at what point in relation to max volume are most people getting what they consider theater volume levels (ie; where is your volume level 30%,40%...80%)and how much further can you go (iF ANY further) before "SOFT CLIPPING" STARTS .I am most interested in the responses from those who are running their speakers full range (and not using powered towers)
    I just keep coming back to the conclusion that the mnfgrs are giving us more bells every day , but cheesing out on powersupply/amp section ,I could be wrong,just my observations,no harm intended
     
  14. PaulW

    PaulW Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a Onkyo 777 THX Select. I normally run it at 46 of 72, which is 58% of max.
    PaulW
     
  15. Evan A

    Evan A Stunt Coordinator

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    MatthewJS
    The thing that makes THX so apealing is that when someone walks into your home and sees something that says THX. That automatically seems expensive and good for the novice. It is imposible to believe that a Kenwood or Pioneer would outperform a simmilar Dennon or Yamaha or Integra.
    It is the thing to have if you want bragging rights to people who don't know HT. And lets be honnest the reason a lot of people do HT is for "show."
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    Evan Adams
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  16. John-D

    John-D Stunt Coordinator

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    Ben Good Post..
    i hope many on the forum were educated and would now reconsider their suggestions to pair just any underpowered receiver with speakers that are also a tough resistive load.
    Matthew, my Integra is rated at 100Watts and is THX Select Certified. I use the relative volume display and listen at around 70dB. I can easily do 80dB without any audible distortion, not that I would want to.. it's Waaaaaay too loud for me. Similarly priced Denon that I compared back when I was receiver shopping struggled with those volumes.
    -------------------------------
    The things we own end up owning us
    [Edited last by John-D on August 03, 2001 at 03:13 PM]
     
  17. Chuck C

    Chuck C Cinematographer

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    I'd give the 595 a shot. Check out the reviews at AR.com by clicking here .
    If it's anything like my 575x, then I'd put it high on your audition list.
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    Chuck
    Chuckster's HT Equipment List
     
  18. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    Ben,
    Great info...thanks for taking the time.
    I'm curious where one would find those graphs? Are they the same graphs at the end of a review in Stereophile? Or are they straight from the manufacturer?
    I'd love to find out the specs on my B&Ws, could help in determining whether or not I need seperate front amplification.
    If you have graphs, I can e-mail you my info.
    Again, thanks, that's educational stuff.
    Jeremy
     
  19. Evan A

    Evan A Stunt Coordinator

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    veto the 595
    -no on screen
    -no front inputs
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    Evan Adams
    [email protected]
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  20. PaulW

    PaulW Stunt Coordinator

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    I emailed Kenwood about this topic and here is what I got back, i think we might have a problem.
    "Thank you for writing to us at Kenwood USA Corporation.
    Although our VR-510 receiver supports the THX feature, the power amplifier
    unit is recommended to operate with 8 ohms speakers. During normal
    operation, the receiver can support a 6 ohm load. However, if the
    receiver's volume were set to an extremely high volume, the receiver could
    access the protection mode. We can definitely confirm that 4 ohms speakers
    would place too much of a load on the amplifier.
    If you have any further questions or need help with anything, please feel
    free to contact us again.
    ************************************************** **************************
    *******
    Kenwood U.S.A. Corporation
    Stage 3 Consumer Services
    P.O. Box 22745
    Long Beach, CA 90801-5745
    Brian Johnson
    Consumer Service Representative
    E-mail for Kenwood USA Corporation: http://www.kenwoodusa.com/support/email_support.jsp
    Phone: 800-536-9663
    Fax: 310-631-3913
    ************************************************** **************************
    ********"
    what should we do abotu this?
     

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