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Who is thinking of signing up for Xbox Live? (1 Viewer)

Romier S

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if they're now tacking additional charges on in addition to a mandatory broadband requirement then Sony will yet again stomp MS into the ground
Lets be fair here Adam. Online console gaming is still a new concept to most out there. Microsoft basically provides the network for the online games that will appear on the X-box. Now, When you create a game like Final Fantasy XI where you have to continually provide patches and focus soley on this one game, that becomes time consuming and expensive. There is a reason there are fees attached to this and I personally understand why.
As for the Sony comment I say to you once again, lets be fair here. This can be argued from both sides of the spectrum. Both online plans have their pluses and their minuses that can't be ignored.
Theoretically speaking to play (again as an example) Final Fantasy XI on the PS2 you need to buy the network adapter (39.99), the PS2 hard drive (99.99), the game (39.99-49.99) and you have to pay the monthly fees associated with FXI (9.95/month I believe). We are talking a 200+ dollar that will allow you to play not only FFXI but all of the other PS2 games coming (some of which like the X-box will have monthly fees). Another plus is that you have the option of playing with a 56k modem. Of course you will need to add the ISP fee for dial-up or broadband if we are going to be thorough. For a hardcore gamer like me, that doesn't bother me one bit. I'll gladly spend the money (I already plan to but not for FFXI:D).
Now if you already have an X-box and a broadband connection your talking about spending 50 bucks for the first year and 10 bucks/month after that. You get the headset communicator, a dedicated broadband network and access to all Xbox online games (with extra fees for particular titles). For those without broadband your going to want to add an additional 20-30 per month (assuming they have a dial-up account) for the broadband connection. Again just being thorough.
We can discuss the pluses and minuses of both plans until our hands fall off from typing but I don't think its in anyone place to say which company will come ahead in the online game. Sony has the userbase and the Playstation name, MS has an out of the box online capable machine and the willingness to spend 2 billion of its money on this thing. I dont think we will be seeing anyone stomping anyone anytime soon.
 

Adam Nixon

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Wow, I guess I must have missed them sneaking that announcement. I know that all of us can see the merits of a dedicated network, but the JSP crowd is going to see a mandatory broadband charge, a special MS "tax" for Live service, AND an additional fee to be determined by some publishers. This will NEVER fly with the masses, even though some hardcores might see a benefit.
 

Morgan Jolley

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That's one of the reasons a lot of people like Sony's approach (deliver great 1st/2nd party online games for free, allow 3rd party developers to do what they want).
 

Adam Nixon

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I guess I've completely misread MS's intentions with X-box Live. I originally thought that the premium was similar to an "HBO type" subscription, where you could partake in everything available after paying your monthly fee. I think most people would jump on an option like that, but I must admit my interest has GREATLY diminished hearing that they will let developers charge extra in ADDITION to MS fees. I'm not sure I understand what EA's problem was a few months ago -- MS seems to allow developers to charge as well as Sony.
 

Tom_J

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I will definitely be giving XBL a try. I think good games play GREAT when you're playing against human opponents, regardless how well the AI was programmed.
I read you not only get the Communicator headseat, 1 year of service, but you also get Revolt, which is a RC Car racing game. That sounds like a great deal to me!
Also, I think MS's plan of using data centers around the world to support their online gaming community is a great idea. I figure MS is the new comer in the console business, but when it comes to networking, voip, etc, they should be one of the forerunners. I feel no regrets about it being broadband only. Nothing ruins online gaming more than LAG.
Plus, they have some pretty neat ideas such as downloading more content for the games you own, such as tracks & vehicles for racing games, more worlds for role playing games, etc. Plus, you can talk smack while you play! :)
PS. I'm not a MS fanboy, but I've been waiting on XBL for a while, and I hope it will be as fun as some of the reviews have made it out to be.
 

BrianB

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I guess I've completely misread MS's intentions with X-box Live. I originally thought that the premium was similar to an "HBO type" subscription, where you could partake in everything available after paying your monthly fee. I think most people would jump on an option like that, but I must admit my interest has GREATLY diminished hearing that they will let developers charge extra in ADDITION to MS fees.
Think of it as a cable sub - for the basic 10 dollars a month, you'll be getting access to a bunch of games online (shooters, racers etc). For the premium channels you need to pay an extra fee - those are the Everquest, Planetfall type games - massively multiplayer games that require extra support/upkeep.

That's the theory anyway. I imagine Microsoft are keen as heck for there to not be any 'premium' games in the US any time soon.
 

Adam Nixon

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I guess by that analogy one could look at the PS2 option as "free, OTA network broadcasts." ;) I thought Live was good option at first, now it seems a little hypocritical to keep adding fees to customers. PC gamers have survived for years without a "mothership" network base to play games on, so will PS2 gamers. I was actually starting to buy MS promises of "best online gaming experience ever," now it's starting to look a lot more like battle.net with fees attached.
On the flipside, why doesn't MS try to package Live as an actual ISP? You wouldn't be able to keep me from signing up if $39.99-49.99 a month included Live AND a broadband connection. Could you imagine how quickly they could get signees? It would be a situation somewhat similar to early adopters snapping up the PS2 for its dvd capabilities.
 

BrianB

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On the flipside, why doesn't MS try to package live as an actual ISP? You wouldn't be able to keep me from signing up if $39.99-49.99 a month included Live AND a broadband connection. Could you imagine how quickly they could get signees?
That's actually likely to happen in the UK with both them & Sony - the UK broadband setup is odd, and a handful of suppliers dominate it. I think Sony have a deal with Telewest.
 

Morgan Jolley

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Plus, they have some pretty neat ideas such as downloading more content for the games you own, such as tracks & vehicles for racing games, more worlds for role playing games, etc. Plus, you can talk smack while you play
The thing is, having downloadable content for games means they can be released incomplete and then can be patched later on. That destroys a lot of what console games are meant to be: complete games with no problems. Sure, some games have problems in them, but how often do they republish a console game because of problems versus how often they publish patches for PC games because of problems? Some of the things you could download could be add-ons and such, but those aren't profitable to the game developers, so its wasted time and money. They might as well just use a lot of those things and create a killer sequel.

And I find talking smack a lot more fun when the person is right next to you and doesn't just leave when they start losing. Online gaming allows people to just stop playing and they don't have a face.
 

Romier S

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The thing is, having downloadable content for games means they can be released incomplete and then can be patched later on. That destroys a lot of what console games are meant to be: complete games with no problems.
You mean much like Final Fantasy XI right now Morgan? I'm not saying FFXI was released incomplete but I'm curious as to how you feel about the game considering its the very type of game you are talking about in your post.

Allot of folks are going to have come to the realization that with the advent of console hard drives and online gaming... patches, updates so forth so on comes with the territory. With complex games like Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest and FFXI coming its inevitable.
 

Aaron Copeland

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Speaking of large games that require fees to maintain the servers, how does Blizzard manage to keep Bnet up and running? They are always upgrading the servers and policing the place against hackers (and have been doing so for years now), yet they don't charge anything extra to play. Are they doing it through advertising or what? How can they manage it but other people have to charge?

Aaron
 

Morgan Jolley

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Speaking of large games that require fees to maintain the servers, how does Blizzard manage to keep Bnet up and running? They are always upgrading the servers and policing the place against hackers (and have been doing so for years now), yet they don't charge anything extra to play. Are they doing it through advertising or what? How can they manage it but other people have to charge?
My guess is that they use one server for all of their games (unlike FFXI, which has servers made JUST for it) and can generate enough revenue from game sales to maintain it.
 

Romier S

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There is a difference between an online-only game getting updates as it goes along as problems are found and a single-player game getting updates because it was released buggy and incomplete
Most definitely there is. What I don't think will ever happen is a market where devlopers of a single player console game let unfinished games out the door to be patched at a later time. This is not the PC market where developers have to deal with inumerable hardware setups and those kinds of quirks. The console crowd will not stand for that type of thing to happen so I don't think you have much to worry about on that front.
 

Calvin Watts III

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I thought that when Everquest finally comes out on the PS2, that it would be a pay-per-month service.
And just how many of Sony's online games are going to be 1st-party??? And who's to say that Sony could start charging a fee somewhere down the line??

But I digress.

I'll be picking up the Sony adapter,if only for SOCOM, & maybe one or two others. I'm not totally sold on console online gaming, but like I said before, I'm willing to give it a try.

Calvin
 

Camp

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I hate to use my familiar line but...

What about the games?
Hell, I'm interested in any online game venture...but I'm only as interested as long as there are killer apps to keep me interested. At this early stage I've seen no console online games I can't live without.
 

Rob Lutter

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Sure Things:
Phantasy Star Online
Sega's 2k3 series
HALO Online
Unreal Tournament
more titles unannounced :)
 

Aaron Copeland

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Most definitely there is. What I don't think will ever happen is a market where devlopers of a single player console game let unfinished games out the door to be patched at a later time. This is not the PC market where developers have to deal with inumerable hardware setups and those kinds of quirks. The console crowd will not stand for that type of thing to happen so I don't think you have much to worry about on that front.
Actually, console games get "patched" all the time, they just aren't publicy announced. Minor bugs are found and new revisions are made for future pressings of the game. I'd bet money that Rogue Leader has undergone such a "patch" to get rid of the Hoth bugs. Also, bugs are often fixed when going from one territory to another since they have to do translations and the like anyway.

Aaron
 

Romier S

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Actually, console games get "patched" all the time, they just aren't publicy announced. Minor bugs are found and new revisions are made for future pressings of the game. I'd bet money that Rogue Leader has undergone such a "patch" to get rid of the Hoth bugs. Also, bugs are often fixed when going from one territory to another since they have to do translations and the like anyway.
Aaron,
That process is common practice and seamless to the average consumer who has no knowledge of it happening when they purchase said game nor do they have to actively download such content/fixes onto a hard drive or other storage media. That is essentially what is being discussed, the downloading of patches/updates via these online services to "correct" buggy single player games.
Furthermore correcting a "minor" bug in later pressings of a title is in no way a comparison to what at times occurs on the PC market. I'm sure the many PC gamers (of which you yourself may be one) here will be more than happy to relate stories of "beta" quality games being released and later patched to deliver a product that should have been available when the game in question went "gold".
My point was that I do not foresee a time when that activity would occur nor be tolerated in the console marketplace. There is no excuse for such product to be released. Let me revise, there is no excuse for that to occur with PC titles either but when dealing with multiple hardware configurations, which consoles do not have, patches are at the very least understandable.
 

Camp

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Sure Things:
Phantasy Star Online
Sega's 2k3 series
HALO Online
Unreal Tournament
Phantasy Star Online doesn't begin to "do it" for me.
Halo is more than a year away
Unreal will be much more unreal on the PC.

The 2k3 series is interesting.
 

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