Who is going to win the Format War and why?

Robert Crawford

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I don't understand your post, since HD DVD has media coming and except for The Terminator at the same price point?




Crawdaddy
 

Austan

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I think one of the points for HD-DVD is that Blu-Ray is vaporware. Another point was that it was "more expensive"...

1) Samsung BD-P1000 is here
2) "HD DVD has media coming and except for The Terminator at the same price point?"

Guess you can take those the vaporware & price off the HD-DVD pros list.
 

Adam Tyner

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I have no idea if there's any merit to this, but the long-standing rumor I've heard is that Toshiba is heavily subsidizing the cost of HD DVD hardware, and Sony is heavily subsidizing the cost of Blu-ray software.
 

Austan

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Just trying clairify why my posting is valid and trying to get back on the orginal topic.

We keep getting off topic and my posting had nothing to do with the previous 10+ postings... I can see why it makes no sense in that context. But it does make sense (to me) if we go back further in the postings.
 

Austan

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when I reply to a post, it's in reference to the post above...

It's like saying "let play the silent game"...."START"..
haha you lose because you said "START"...
 

Cees Alons

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So your post which "had nothing to do with the previous 10+ postings" was in fact in reply to the post immediately above it.

I see.


Cees
 

Austan

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I agree that both camps are subsidizing their products... But the bottom line is... what is out of pocket price for the consumer.

HD-A1 is at least $500 cheaper then BD-P1000... That we can all agree.
HD-XA1 is at least $200 cheaper than BD-P1000... agreeable also.

HD-DVD media vs Blu-Ray media... looks like they might be equal in price
From early pre-reviews of BD-P1000 I'm gonna say HD-A1 > BD-P1000 video quality and < audio quality.

HD-A1 > BD-P1000 startup/load times (based on pre-reviews)
HD-A1 > BD-P1000 upscaling (based on pre-reviews)

For those that have bought a HD-A1 or HD-XA1 congrats!!!
I think all the Blu-Ray supporters have been saying that...
Yet the HD-DVD supporters dont seem to giving any credit to the Blu-Ray camp. I've even posted price drops for the HD-A1 on a different thread.

Seriously, why doesnt anyone on the HD-DVD camp use what I have posted above to be positives for HD-DVD? That data can be found on lots of "legitimate" websites... I've posted that 7500 HD-A1 units have been sold, yet no counter argument of how many have been shipped since...
 

Manus

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Why is it never possible to have a debate on these topics without it degenerating into these pi$$ing contests ? Particularly when its requested right from the off ( and re-iterated several times later on ) ?

Given how early it is in the 'HD age' it has been depressing to watch people wave their Bluray or HD-DVD flags since long before either format's hardware or software arrived and deny the undisputed truth ( I hope) that in this instance one single format would have been better than two for all of us for many reasons .
As a devout HD agnostic, I can honestly say who WONT win the format war. The consumer ! I dont believe either format was ready for launch from a hard or software point of view (Mch. Lossless/MPEG2 ? ) and this fact quite simply illustrates the disdain that all concerned have towards their prospective customers.
Oh, and btw, how can the same industry that invented the aberration that is Region Coding to try and reclaim all those lost profits afford to chuck million$ at a war that simply cannot be won quickly (if at all ) ?

I wont even get into Aacs


I'm biding my time building up my classic movie collection ( Thank You Fox/Warner
) while all this is going on and I honestly dont feel I'm missing out on much. Im sure the picture is/can be fabulous but the sound upgrade is minimal so far on either format to make me part with my $. For those of you who feel otherwise , Enjoy ! I hope you're doing more of what we all should be doing, ie. watching movies not formats.

Regards to all,

~M~
 

Dave Moritz

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I have been waiting and waiting for Blu-ray and finally at least the Samsung player is out. While its not the player I would choose for my HT. At least someone has a Blu-ray player available. It is however getting really old that there seems to be one delay after another. How many more delays will blu-ray have before the players are all available and software titles are on retail shelves?

There where three reasons why I stayed away from HD-DVD.
1. Buggy players
2. 1080p sofware being displayer at 1080i
3. Less space for future needs and upgradeability.

Well know that there is a patch out that fixes the problems. And the 2nd gen HD-DVD player will most likely be 1080p. If Blu-ray keeps getting pushed back I will end up getting a HD-DVD player built by someone other than Toshiba hopefully. And put Blu-ray on the back burner.

I thought that Toshiba was done for but the way things are going maybe Toshiba has a chance after all? Does anyone know why they delayed players yet again!
 

Dan Hitchman

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If and only if Blu-Ray manufacturing can't be improved and BD-50 proves to be far too expensive with low yields, and if MPEG-2 is utilized for titles for the immediate future then I may have to hang my head and say HD-DVD, an inferior product, has won the day.

However, all this is speculation. Sure Sony botched their first transfers (so did WB on a few HD-DVD's), but hopefully that isn't all she wrote.

Warner Brothers put out lousy content at first for the start of the DVD roll out in 1997 and part of 1998 and they were HUGE backers of DVD (poor compression, many times with mis-statements about 16x9 enhancements, and 5.1 encoding for basically mono tracks, etc.). Sony had better quality and now has slipped. It looks like this time Sony's the one to trip at the starting line, but will they recover and will other Blu-Ray supporters pick up the baton and go all the way?

Dan
 

Rob_HD

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But if I told you they hit 25,000 units 3 weeks ago you wouldn't believe me anyway


And if I said there was no point in buying the Samsung until better quality BD movies were the norm, I would only be stating the obvious, but it would still be my I-pinion.

Based on the comparative reviews of the Toshibas and the Samsung, there would be no other reason to buy the Samsung other than having superior releases, which is not yet the situation.

One other factor that is VERY important to me is that I can burn my Hi Def Sony HDV videos of my kids to an HD DVD 9, using my laptop and regular DVD-R discs.

But the Samsung cannot play BD-ROM 9's burned to regular DVD discs - you can only use the BDR 25/50 media. I find this a missed opportunity.
 

Larry Sutliff

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Actually, Warners put out A list titles from the start on regular DVD(The BATMAN series, etc.) and the picture at the time looked better than laserdisc. It's only in retrospect, when we've seen the huge improvements with picture quality, that we realize that the early titles weren't up to snuff. But they looked pretty grand to a lot of folks in 1997.
 

Chris S

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With no writable drives currently available, and no release date currently set, is this really an issue for now? I would be hesitant to think that just becuase the specs state it would play the disc it will do so problem free. I readily expect compatiblity issues for by HD-DVD-R and BD-R along the same lines of what we say with DVD-R and DVD+R.
 

Andrew Bunk

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This number surprises me I'd love to see a source. It doesn't surprise me because I think people won't like HD-DVD, it surprises me because NO ONE has these right now, and no one around me got more than 2-3 to sell.
 

Nils Luehrmann

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His "source" was from someone on AVS claiming to be an HD DVD dealer somewhere in the US. Of course, even if he was an HD DVD dealer, most find it curious how a dealer would have access to that data, and yet even Toshiba has never even hinted that figure was remotely accurate. Then when you take in account to what purpose an HD DVD dealer might have in attempting to paint a picture of greater sales... the value of the "source" diminishes VERY quickly.

There have at least been published articles (not like the anonymous post on AVS) that have suggested that Toshiba, at that time, had "shipped" 7,500 HD DVD players worldwide. No official word on actual sales figures yet.

Regardless of all that, with over a million standard DVD players selling every month, and an installed base of over 200 million standalone DVD players... even if HD DVD and Blu-ray players sell more than 100,000 units each in their first year, it will hardly be a significant first step into appealing to the mass market.
 

RobertR

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It's far too early in the format war to worry about how well they're received in the mass market. The FIRST people that have to be pleased are the early adopters. What I'm looking at is how well each format is being receiver by THAT group, and there's not yet enough sales data to suggest either format has an advantage. Early "buzz" on picture quality favors HDDVD at this point, though.
 

Nils Luehrmann

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So while some bees may be "buzzzing" about how bad Blu-ray titles look, at least we know one trusted source with proof of his ownership of both players has a VERY different opinion.
 

Adam Tyner

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Are you referring to DTV TiVo Dealer? If so, there's no "claiming" going on whatsoever, and it's not anonymous. That's Robert Zohn from Value Electronics in Scarsdale, NY. Value Electronics has, according to Robert and at least one press piece I could quickly dig up, sold 2,000 players -- primarily online but several dozen were sold in his B&M store.
 

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