Who here freezes some if not all of their A/V components? (1 Viewer)

[Dave Miller]

That's just plain funny!

Peace,

DM

 

[ChristopherDAC]

I got one of the best secondary educations in the U.S. at the time, without using digital computers at all; in fact I do not even typically use a pocket calculator, except for e.g. trig functions.
Oh, and my year of H.S. graduation?
2000

So there.

 

[Leo Kerr]

Bravo!

See, computers aren't required for education. It's the teachers and the students that matter.

Leo Kerr

 

[Garrett Lundy]

Actually, I think a poorly written computer edu-tainment program would have been a better teacher then half of my under-skilled tenured teachers, both High-School and college.

Berlitz taught me more Spanish on four CD's than Spanish class taught me in four years.....

 

[Tim K]

Not exposing students/children to computers in school is putting them years behind their peers. This is especially true in public schools and low income areas. Sure, kids in the suburbs have PC's at home, but alot of city and rural kids don't have that luxury. Schools are the only place they will have the opportunity to learn about and use computers. Alot of these kids are already at a disadvantage, not exposing them to computers is expanding the gap between them and their peers.

 

[ChristopherDAC]

I don't know; I'm reminded of the current push to "Bridge the Digital Divide" and give everybody in the world broadband Internet connexions. Something like two thirds of the world's population has neither safe drinking water nor dependable electricity. What earthly good will Internet access do them? Information technology is largely a chimera as a solution to the major problems of the world, the nation, and the nation's youth. More paperwork than ever before is being generated in the digital "paperless offics"; massive IT based solutions are giving poorer performance as business tools than properly managed paper systems would, because nobody has taken a look at what information should be gathered, how it should be integrated, where it should be distributed; and personally I find CAD and spreadsheets much harder to work with than draughting tools and paper calculations, and not just because I don't habitually use machines. Digital computing and information technology have vital roles to play in the forseeable future, yes, but for the most part not the ones they are filling now. How many people have a $700 or $1000 computer used mostly for playing solitaire and sending eMail? That would buy a great number of decks of playing cards and postcard stamps.
I'm not at all confident that computers confer a great advantage, despite all the hype; I do know that, at least in my area, they are hurting the libraries because funding is being diverted to computing resources and away from reference librarians and materials -- and much of what a good librarian finds out for you, no amount of Googling is going to get. And the Fort Worth district procured large numbers of computers for use in schools which do not even have sufficient electrical service to accomodate them, and the teachers know nothing about software packages or integrating informaton technology into classroom learning, so they are used mostly as dorstops.
In my public school enrichment classes we had old Apple IIes like every school got a million of, and I will admit that the smidgen of BASIC programming I did in the 5th grade gave me an understanding of how the machines actually work; but what good is that experience to most of today's youth, even if they were to get it which they won't?

 

[Tim K]

There are always other places that need money. The bottom line...and the point I am trying to make...is that we need to give our children as many opportunities to learn as possible. I wouldn't say we are wasting our money on drama, arts, music, sports...or anything else, simply because they didn't do anything for ME. We can all name people who didn't need something they were exposed to in school. But choosing to NOT expose our children to a skill that they may end up using for a career is a mistake.

 

[Philip Hamm]

Tim,

I think you misunderstand what the point is. The idea is not a broad statement that computers in schools are bad on the whole, it's that they are overhyped and overused. In my post I stated that the only place where computers are apprpriate is in the computer lab. (maybe in the library, maybe). Putting a "computer in every classroom" is a misplaced priority. Yes, give educational establishments computers, in the appropriate place, but don't simply throw computers at education expecting something magic to happen. In most classrooms textbooks are a better investment that computers.

 

[Tim K]

Thanks for clarifying. I agree, computers don't need to be in every science class or history class. Classrooms are for teaching.

The only exception being if the teacher was using it...for teaching or demonstrations (like on overhead).

 

[Leo Kerr]

Ehh.. here's where my library heritage shows through. I like computerized card-catalogs. But a computer in the library should just be for the library, not for the internet...

gee.. what happened to all those old PCs.. can't they be recycled into VT100 terminals running basic catalog software off the library server? Oh, okay, if you insist, you can do it over ethernet instead of VT100.. but ASCII based! Not HTML!

sorry, sorry.. I tend to get worked up about some of these pet peeves of mine...

Leo Kerr

 

[Bob McElfresh]

Here is something to ponder -

Years ago (in the day where the Commador 64 and Apple IIe were fighting for dominance), England started a new program in their public schools. Every student basically purchased a 'kit' computer and put it together and learned to program it. It was a simple thing with 'chicklet' keys and a whopping 8K of memory.

My understanding was that England was trying to 'seed' it's young people with computer knowledge in the hopes that computer science/programming would take off in the next 10-20 years. The students with a knack for computers would adopt it as a career and others .. would at least not be afraid of "THE COMPUTER".

I'm not sure, but I dont think the plan worked. I suspect something about the program failed - but I have not heard why. Does anyone know?

 

[Eric Eash]

while down in tokyo, i visited an extremely high end electronics store, and found the a tweak that is even more rediculous than the freezer. it was a $50 cd, that said you just put it in your transport, and play the cd, and afterwards, your transport will play with more transparency, imaging, the whole nine. i laughed out loud.

eric

 

[Adam.Heckman]

Chu, you say that computer money could have bought schools 3 good shop machines, correct? Well, the best machines in a shop right now are controlled by what? That's right. Computers. CNC machines. Those water jet machines that cut steel. Or a lazer cutter. Without CAD skills and basic computer knowledge, those would go to waste.

ChristopherDAC, you say that hand drafting tools are just as good as CAD. I sit at a CAD station as we speak. The use of CAD has revolutionized the way we build. Anything. Collaboration and the sharing of ideas and information has never been more easily facilitated. I'd love to see any engineering/achitecture/machine shop that uses a drafting board and can keep up with the competition.

And when that shop closes, what will all the machinists - that learned their trade in the shop class with old school tools - do?

 

[Chu Gai]

No, I didn't say that at all.

 

[Adam.Heckman]

You are correct. I believe it was Leo. I appologize for the mis-quote.

 

[Leo Kerr]

Yes, I take credit for all of that.

I still do.

I'm not doubting the use of computers in the real world.

Education isn't always the real world. (in fact, I'm not sure that the education world ever has much to do with the real world.)

But a question for you, Adam:

Did you learn drafting/engineering drawing on a computer, or did you start with the CAD workstation?

At least when I was going through the system, the fact that I had several years of mechanical drawing and photolab experience made it so that when they sat me down with photoshop, for example, I knew what the tools did.

I'm still a firm believer of knowing the how and why of things before setting someone down with the greatest tools in the world.

Now, the shop tools I was referring to were things like Delta or Rockwell table saws, band saws, lathes, and the like; not the $50k CNC computer controlled routers. Yes, they're powerful, and our shop here at work really loves it - especially combined with their 3-D scanner. But a high schooler would probably be better off knowing the basics of wood-shop first, and then beginning to explore the remarkable high-end tools.

Leo Kerr

 

[Adam.Heckman]

I learned hand drafting first. The only benifit was it taught me techniques for finding lines and how to construct a drawing. That was invaluable in CAD. I agree.

However, with the advent of parametric modeling, drafting will go to the wayside. AutoCAD was still drafting. You draw lines. And you do all the work. But the new group of database driven software like AutoDesk Revit put the old drafting in the obsolete bin. One information driven model is made and the software creates the drawings for you. If mechanical drafting is your thing, then AutoDesk Inventor does the same.

Drafting is a dying, and very soon to be dead, art. It's all about the computer now.

 

[Leo Kerr]

I haven't really looked at any CAD software in years... and in my last experience with it, it was a whole lot easier for me to do it by hand than it was via CAD. But in 12 or 14 years, I hoped that it had changed!

Now, against my own arguements, I'll also add...

when I went through wood-shop, we got to play with the really nice table saws, drill presses, and all those other useful tools that make it possible to cut a straight edge, and drill an aligned hole. Unfortunately, we didn't really cover hand/power tools (small circular saws, and the like,) so as to give the student a good feel for what sort of tool that s/he might deal with as a homeowner / do-it-your-selfer.

Oh well, that was what the theater shop was for.... (mantra regards paint: if it can't be done with a 3" brush or a roller, it doesn't need to be done!)

Leo Kerr