White Shadow - Episode 3 Badly Cut

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by Michael Alden, Nov 22, 2005.

  1. Michael Alden

    Michael Alden Supporting Actor

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    I got my White Shadow set in the mail yesterday from Amazon and I checked the running times for all of the episodes. Episode 3, The Offer, comes in at 43:40 while all of the other episodes come in at 48:10. That means that this is cut by 4 and a half minutes. Just to verify, I pulled out the tape I have from the early 80s (syndication, unfortunately, not CBS) and I A/B'd the episode. Even with my cut version I found a 2 1/2 minute scene that is missing from the DVD. I'm sure that screening a complete episode would turn up the other missing 2 minutes. Love to hear Fox's explanation for that. Initially my thought was that since there are scenes in the episodes of the team singing songs in the shower, that perhaps it was a music clearance edit. But, no, this episode does contain a shower scene with the team singing Duke of Earl and it is left intact. So that wasn't it.
     
  2. Jaime_Weinman

    Jaime_Weinman Supporting Actor

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    I noticed the same thing but I thought it might be an episode that came in short. Guess not.

    Around the time MTM was collapsing and sold its library to Fox, they had their library badly mixed up and would send mid-'90s syndication episodes mixed in with uncut ones. My local channel had packages of "Newhart" and "WKRP" that mixed some syndication episodes in with the full-length episodes. I was afraid that this would come back to bite Fox in the butt once they started releasing the MTM shows. (They've already released some episodes of "Mary Tyler Moore" and "Remington Steele" with the music changes MTM made in the late '90s.)

    My theory is that the syndication cut was mis-labeled at some point as the original version by MTM, and Fox didn't catch the mistake.
     
  3. Michael Alden

    Michael Alden Supporting Actor

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    Yeah, because looking at the time and seeing one episode
    4 1/2 minutes shorter than all the rest shouldn't have gotten anyone's attention or anything.
     
  4. Jaime_Weinman

    Jaime_Weinman Supporting Actor

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    I didn't say they shouldn't have been expected to catch the mistake, just that they probably didn't catch the mistake. It's a sad fact that the people who know the show well enough to catch these things are often not the people checking the DVD materials.
     
  5. Mike*SC

    Mike*SC Second Unit

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    But since none of us has a clue as to what went on here, don't simply assume nobody noticed. There could be any number of reasons the episode is shorter, including that that footage is simply missing.
     
  6. Andy_Bu

    Andy_Bu Supporting Actor

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    I noticed this as well the other day when watching but since I did not have a tape to compare it too and my memory from decades ago watching it was so vague, I couldn't figure out what was missing.

    I wonder if the kind people from www.tvshowsondvd.com could find out what happened?

    I have only made it through 4 enjoyable episodes so far. Has anyone gone through more episodes and seen any further cuts?

    Andy
     
  7. Michael Alden

    Michael Alden Supporting Actor

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    All of the other episodes seem to be intact.
     
  8. Jack Platt

    Jack Platt Stunt Coordinator

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    Guys,

    Can anyone tell somewhat about the dialogue that was cut (From "The Offer" and what scene comes before it by comparing it to a syndicated copy with the scene intact?) I recently got TWS and I love it! How much does the cut affect the story line? Thanks!

    Jack

    PS. If anyone knows, how much is currently cut out of the episodes that they are airing on NBA TV?
     
  9. Andy_Bu

    Andy_Bu Supporting Actor

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    And a reminder for everyone that White Shadow Season 2 will be released on March 7.

    Andy
     
  10. Jack Platt

    Jack Platt Stunt Coordinator

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    Andy,

    I heard that FOX had to push back the release date for Season 2 of TWS because it turned out that they had used Season 3 promotional artwork for Season 2's packaging!

    I think the new release date for Season 2 is now March 20th.

    Jack
     
  11. StacyV

    StacyV Second Unit

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    The release date is actually the day after, the 21st. Though that date is listed on FOX's website, www.foxhome.com, they're still showing that same season 3 picture as the cover for the season 2 release. If there's been a change it hasn't been reflected on their site or any etailer's site that I've noticed.
     
  12. Jack Platt

    Jack Platt Stunt Coordinator

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    POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW (But Needed to Explain What I Believe Was Cut.)

    I watched "The Offer" last night on DVD and even before I got into it, I could tell it was a syndicated print. It looks very good, but not as sharp as the other episodes where they appear to be taken directly from the original masters. The Offer has a scene when Coach Reeves and the reporter are having dinner where you can see the color quickley fade out in some shots, as if the episode had been colorized and remastered from a syndicated showing and not the original tape.

    Although I don't have the original tape, it appears that the cut of about 4 minutes occurs around the time that the team is PO'd at Reeves because Gomez makes a call from a police station. (He gets picked up for Shoplifting) but after contacting Reeves, the coach is busy getting ready for an interview with the reporter and apoligizes to Gomez that he is busy and abruptly hangs up on him. Gomez never gets to tell what happens to him in the call to Reeves. (This is included.)

    We than have the coach question the team who give him the silent treatment because they hear from the grapvine that Gomez is in jail. His probation officer, Ms. Bucannon, everyone is questioning Reeves about Gomez. Suddenly Gomez, is shown playing a basketball game as if nothing had happened! I would assume that Reeves goes to the jailhouse to help bail Gomez out and there is probably more dialogue about Reeves telling the reporter that he doesn't want to be a sports commentator, but wants to stay at Carver to help the kids. (All of this could EASILY fill up four minutes of time and would be CRITICAL to understanding the story!) It is so obvious that there should be more dialogue with Reeves and Gomez that we don't see. This was A LOT more than oversight.

    Jack
     
  13. Michael Alden

    Michael Alden Supporting Actor

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    The scene I have (from the original off-network syndication airing in 1982) has Ken and the woman he's dating in her apartment prior to him going to the party. That lasts about a minute and a half and then there is another minute at the party before the DVD picks up. Now, since this is syndication, this is only 2 1/2 minutes of the 4 1/2 that's cut.
     
  14. StacyV

    StacyV Second Unit

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    For those interested, here are the episode lengths for the White Shadow season 2 set.

    DISC 1, SIDE A
    1: On the Line (48:56)
    2: Albert Hodges (48:58)
    3: Cross-Town Hustle (48:54)
    4: Sudden Death (48:55)

    DISC 1, SIDE B
    5: A Silent Cheer (48:58)
    6: No Place Like Home (48:58)

    DISC 2, SIDE A
    7: Globetrotters (48:58)
    8: Me? (48:53)
    9: Needle (48:55)
    10: Sliding By (48:51)

    DISC 2, SIDE B
    11: Delores, Of Course (48:53)
    12: A Christmas Present (48:51)

    DISC 3, SIDE A
    13: Feeling No Pain (48:57)
    14: Artist (48:51)
    15: Salami's Affair (48:51)
    16: Links (48:58)

    DISC 3, SIDE B
    17: The Stripper (48:52)
    18: Gonna Fly Now (48:52)

    DISC 4, SIDE A
    19: Out at Home (48:54)
    20: The Russians Are Coming (48:57)
    21: The Hitter (48:22)
    22: The Death of Me Yet (48:41)

    DISC 4, SIDE B
    23: Coolidge Goes Hollywood (48:56)
    24: A Few Good Men (48:50)
     
  15. Michael Alden

    Michael Alden Supporting Actor

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    So it appears that all of the season two shows are complete and The Offer was the only one cut up. I wonder if Fox even knows about it. Maybe we should contact them and maybe they can add the complete version on the season 3 set.
     
  16. Andy_Bu

    Andy_Bu Supporting Actor

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    Probably way too late for that as Season 3 is being released this month. Was suppose to have been early March but looks to have been pushed back a bit.

    Andy
     
  17. Michael Alden

    Michael Alden Supporting Actor

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    Season 2 isn't even out yet. There's no season 3 scheduled yet. Don't know what you are talking about.
     
  18. Andy_Bu

    Andy_Bu Supporting Actor

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    Whoops, I meant Season 2, sorry about that.

    Andy
     
  19. StacyV

    StacyV Second Unit

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    This review of the season 2 set suggests that season 3 may be on the way soon.
     
  20. Jack Platt

    Jack Platt Stunt Coordinator

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    Guys,

    Getting a replacement disk from Amazon for S2 of TWS. My disk started freezing up about 3/4 of the way through the "Me?" episode. I got it like about a week after the release date, so HOPEFULLY Amazon will have new shipments by now and I can get a defective free disk. All Episodes appear to be uncut.

    Jack
     

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