A Few Words About While we wait for A few words about...™ Lawrence of Arabia -- in 4k/UHD Blu-ray (5 Viewers)

[OliverK]

It looks like the color timing is very slightly different between the releases. Would the Mastered in 4K version be more definitive still?

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=4070&disc2=1515&hd_multiID=117#auswahl

The definitive version for home use at the moment resides on the FMP-X1:
https://store.sony.com/4k-ultra-hd-media-player-zid27-FMPX1/cat-27-catid-All-Internet-Players

Half way down the page there is specific mentioning of LoA. At a price of 40$ one is getting Lawrence at almost the same luma resolution as the 4k cinemas and for the first time with 1080p chroma resolution.

Imo the best version at the moment for those who already own a compatible Sony 4k display or preferably projector.

 

[Robert Harris]

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=63697

 

[Reed Grele]

The definitive version for home use at the moment resides on the FMP-X1:
https://store.sony.com/4k-ultra-hd-media-player-zid27-FMPX1/cat-27-catid-All-Internet-Players

Half way down the page there is specific mentioning of LoA. At a price of 40$ one is getting Lawrence at almost the same luma resolution as the 4k cinemas and for the first time with 1080p chroma resolution.

Imo the best version at the moment for those who already own a compatible Sony 4k display or preferably projector.

If I had unlimited funds at my disposal, I'd have one of these new toys already.

But I just wish that Sony didn't have such a thing for proprietary devices and accessories: "The Sony 4K Ultra HD Media Player (FMP-X1) is only compatible with Sony 4K Ultra HD TVs. It is not compatible with 4K Ultra HD TVs from any other brand"

 

[OliverK]

If I had unlimited funds at my disposal, I'd have one of these new toys already.

The server was quite cheap (relatively speaking) when it came out: 10 free movies were preloaded and all of that at a cost of 500$ when you already had a Sony display or projector. Of course the downside is that you really want a projector to make full use of 4k and these are still kind of pricey:http://discover.store.sony.com/ES/projectors/VPL-VW600ES.html

But I just wish that Sony didn't have such a thing for proprietary devices and accessories: "The Sony 4K Ultra HD Media Player (FMP-X1) is only compatible with Sony 4K Ultra HD TVs. It is not compatible with 4K Ultra HD TVs from any other brand"

It is really a step in the wrong direction but obviously Sony sees 4k content as a sales incentive for their 4k software.I think most will remember how one could only get Avatar on 3D Blu-ray with certain Panasonic equipment but once bought it would play on every 3D Blu-ray player. The FMP-X1/X10 and their content stand for a new level of exclusiveness and Samsung seems to follow that lead:http://vp.samsungrebate.com/

 

[Reed Grele]

If I already owned a Sony 4k projector, their FMP-X1 would be a bit more enticing.

Looks like proprietary software/hardware and streaming/downloading 4k content will keep this out of my reach for some time.

I sincerely hope that there will not be another format war for 4k as there was for 1080p (anyone want to buy my HD DVD players and discs?)

 

[Paul Rossen]

If I already owned a Sony 4k projector, their FMP-X1 would be a bit more enticing.

Looks like proprietary software/hardware and streaming/downloading 4k content will keep this out of my reach for some time.

I sincerely hope that there will not be another format war for 4k as there was for 1080p (anyone want to buy my HD DVD players and discs?)

I don't anticipate any new format wars as Blu-ray will probably be the last physical disc produced...

 

[Reed Grele]

Can you imagine 4k systems that only allow playback of titles that the manufacturer of said systems owns or has licensed? How many different makes of projectors and playback/storage devices will i require in order to maintain a decent library of 4k titles?

 

[OliverK]

Can you imagine 4k systems that only allow playback of titles that the manufacturer of said systems owns or has licensed? How many different makes of projectors and playback/storage devices will i require in order to maintain a decent library of 4k titles?

And that is why not too many will take 4k seriously if this continues.

We will soon have an official 4k format with hopefully something else to offer except for resolution (my favourites would be bitdepth and color space). At that point I doubt that proprietary solutions will stay that way much longer. These are all stopgap solutions to let the customer have some 4k content while there is no official format.

 

[Alan Tully]

Unfortunately coming up to 64 years old, I don't think I have 4K eyeballs anymore!I'm wondering what the French release of Lord Jim will look like. It's Freddie Young again, shooting on a large format in exotic locations only a few years after Lawrence, & with Sony's remastering it could look stunning.

 

[Dave H]

The definitive version for home use at the moment resides on the FMP-X1:
https://store.sony.com/4k-ultra-hd-media-player-zid27-FMPX1/cat-27-catid-All-Internet-Players

Half way down the page there is specific mentioning of LoA. At a price of 40$ one is getting Lawrence at almost the same luma resolution as the 4k cinemas and for the first time with 1080p chroma resolution.

Imo the best version at the moment for those who already own a compatible Sony 4k display or preferably projector.

Meh, I rather stick with my JVC front projector which has far more contrast and lower back level than any of Sony's current 4K projectors and wait for a real 4K format and not Sony's proprietary scheme. When a real 4K format is available with more than a handful of titles, I will then look to upgrade to a 4K projector.

I am curious though why the color is slightly different between the standard Blu and Mastered in 4K version though - no one seems to know I suppose.

 

[Dr Griffin]

Here is a recent update, and it sounds like everything is still up in the air. Don't rule out physical media just yet!

http://www.techradar.com/us/news/television/hdtv/4k-streaming-is-leaving-blu-ray-in-the-dirt-1247111#article-comments

 

[OliverK]

Meh, I rather stick with my JVC front projector which has far more contrast and lower back level than any of Sony's current 4K projectors and wait for a real 4K format and not Sony's proprietary scheme.

Having access to both the Sony 4k and the JVC offerings I prefer the big Sony - with its iris a little closed it has more than 10000:1 on/off contrast and about 50% higher Ansi. There are quite a few other things it does better but then we have to also figure in the price so it better be an improvement in a few more areas!Regarding Sony using a "scheme": Currently Sony is not stopping a unified 4k format from happening from what I know and until that is decided upon I can understand that they would get the most out of their own 4k content by making it compatible only with their own displays. It is not as if they would potentially get rich by selling it to owners of other 4k displays anyway.

 

[Dave H]

Having access to both the Sony 4k and the JVC offerings I prefer the big Sony - with its iris a little closed it has more than 10000:1 on/off contrast and about 50% higher Ansi. There are quite a few other things it does better but then we have to also figure in the price so it better be an improvement in a few more areas!Regarding Sony using a "scheme": Currently Sony is not stopping a unified 4k format from happening from what I know and until that is decided upon I can understand that they would get the most out of their own 4k content by making it compatible only with their own displays. It is not as if they would potentially get rich by selling it to owners of other 4k displays anyway.

My 2013 JVC RS4810 has a 46,000:1 on/off contrast ratio. The 2014 JVC upper tier models are double of that. I can only imagine what JVC's top tier, first 4K projector will display at. That is huge difference over what any Sony front projector can do and will be very noticeable in a dark environment. We are talking day and night contrast differences here. The Sony does have a lot more brightness over JVC which is nice for ambient light and 3D, but I project in a dedicated bat cave with black walls and carpet and 3D doesn't really interest me. By the way, I don't mean to imply the Sonys are not outstanding projectors; they are. I am just saying the JVCs excel in contrast. Sony and JVC projectors are way above anything else IMO and offer the most film-like images.

 

[OliverK]

My 2013 JVC RS4810 has a 46,000:1 on/off contrast ratio. The 2014 JVC upper tier models are double of that. I can only imagine what JVC's top tier, first 4K projector will display at. That is huge difference over what any Sony front projector can do and will be very noticeable in a dark environment. We are talking day and night contrast differences here. The Sony does have a lot more brightness over JVC which is nice for ambient light and 3D, but I project in a dedicated bat cave with black walls and carpet and 3D doesn't really interest me. By the way, I don't mean to imply the Sonys are not outstanding projectors; they are. I am just saying the JVCs excel in contrast. Sony and JVC projectors are way above anything else IMO and offer the most film-like images.

A German review site has measured both the JVC and the Sony projectors and they arrive at 8000 to 18000:1 for the VW1000ES and 23000 to 54000:1 for your projector that was called X55 over here:
http://www.cine4home.de/knowhow/Cine4Home_Edition_JVC_X-Serie_2013/JVC_X-Serie_C4HEd_1.htm
As most will want higher brightness anything more than 30000 seems rather improbable for slightly bigger screens as with such a setting and over the majority of the lifetime of your lamp light output will be reduced to less than 450 lumens which is not much by any standard and if you strive for 14 fL it is not suited for unigain screens that go above 2.3 m.

The new models are a bit better but not by much (had the X55/RS4810 side by side with the X500/???) and even with them differences are not that apparent except for extremely dark scenes. It is true that if you feel that you need the really dark parts in a movie at JVC level than there is no other option but figuring in a variety of factors I consider the Sony superior - in a black room.

By the way: The JVC is so dark that its absolute black level will even shine in a room with white walls as it only looks that stunning when there is almost no light coming from the projector and then you also have the least issues with reflections from the walls. What clearly is not so good with the JVC models is that its already lower Ansi contrast is further reduced in bright rooms when you are watching more mixed content that is also available with most movies - Lawrence of Arabia would be a good example of this. Now how did exactly this movie come to mind?

In any case the X55/RS4810 is a great projector and would have been my choice in its price class, very nice unit and if not optimized for maximum contrast one can go up to 2.6m wide on an unigain and with higher gain screens up to 3.5m wide.

 

[FoxyMulder]

As most will want higher brightness anything more than 30000 seems rather improbable for slightly bigger screens as with such a setting and over the majority of the lifetime of your lamp light output will be reduced to less than 450 lumens which is not much by any standard and if you strive for 14 fL it is not suited for unigain screens that go above 2.3 m.

450 Lumens is still 10.5fl on a 120 inch screen, that's not too bad when you consider how our eyes tend to adjust to the dimming of the bulb, i get perfect 3D now with my DLP projector and i measured the brightness of that ( in 3D ) at only 5.8fl, it will dim but i think the reason i find 5.8fl acceptable is that they brighten 3D blu ray releases and so the image seems better and i remember reading how Ridley Scott supervised the 3D transfers of Prometheus and optimised two separate transfers, one for 4fl and one for 6fl, it's a shame DLP's contrast in 2D is not better although with DLP the 3D is perfect, roll on brighter LED or Laser projectors.

 

[andySu]

I first saw the Restoration in London at the Odeon Marble Arch in the company of Sir David, Robert Bolt and several others who had made the picture. I'm sure Robert Harris would have been there as well. It turned out to be a controversial screening because this particular cinema had the only surviving deep-curve screen in London. It was never a Cinerama theatre but had been designed for D-150 presentations and I just loved seeing movies on that huge screen, which was actually used quite rarely as the fashion for 70mm faded. Anyway, Lawrence burst on to this incredible screen and I thought the whole experience was unforgettable. Unfortunately, Sir David didn't. He hated the way the curve affected the horizons in the film and created all sorts of other distortions and so - and this is POWER - he got Columbia to dismantle the screen and instal a regular flat screen instead. Aesthetically Sir David was quite right; a pity he killed London's most spectacular cinema as well.

It was a magnificently LARGE screen at Odoen Marble Arch. Saw it there on Sunday 11th June 1989 front and centre/line to get all that dialouge panning pinging my ears left and right and nice use on the mono surrounds. The rumble of the horses hoofs. "NO PRISONERS!" And charging across the pains of the dry desert I could feel that on my body.

Saw it week later at the local in sadly another large screen victim to shoebox. Least it was in Dolby Stereo SR but the screen size was pathetic and looked like VHS letterbox as the projection throw didn't have the width it once did as the stud walls on the sides narrowed the light beam.

£4.00 was cinema value back then. Today its £20.00 for digital and I'm least interested in digital cinema. It doesn't have the same transparency as real light onto film as I'm so used to seeing that at once cinema in the past.

 

[andySu]

450 Lumens is still 10.5fl on a 120 inch screen, that's not too bad when you consider how our eyes tend to adjust to the dimming of the bulb, i get perfect 3D now with my DLP projector and i measured the brightness of that ( in 3D ) at only 5.8fl, it will dim but i think the reason i find 5.8fl acceptable is that they brighten 3D blu ray releases and so the image seems better and i remember reading how Ridley Scott supervised the 3D transfers of Prometheus and optimised two separate transfers, one for 4fl and one for 6fl, it's a shame DLP's contrast in 2D is not better although with DLP the 3D is perfect, roll on brighter LED or Laser projectors.

To must fans of Lawrence Of Arabia, would have seen a scene in Prometheus.

Olympus Has Fallen (2013) as a few scenes from LOA in the presidents home cinema room.

 

[Malcolm Bmoor]

Everyone on this forum who saw LOA at The Odeon Marble Arch - and I wish I'd seen it on the D150 screen - will mourn today's news item in the London Evening Standard, as development plans as large scale as this are always approved:

Plans to demolish the 1960s “eyesore” Marble Arch Tower and replace it with flats overlooking Hyde Park will be decided by councillors tonight.


Developer Almacantar will learn if its contentious proposal to raze the building, which also includes the Odeon cinema at the western end of Oxford Street, will get planning permission.

 

[DP 70]

The Odeon Marble Arch was such a lovely cinema, on IN 70mm.com I have some pics of the Odeon when Star Wars was shown on the D150 screen in 1978.

 

[AdrianTurner]

I'm wondering what the French release of Lord Jim will look like. It's Freddie Young again, shooting on a large format in exotic locations only a few years after Lawrence, & with Sony's remastering it could look stunning.

I'm dithering over this - and I'll decide when I learn if you can easily opt out of the French subtitles. I have a weird relationship with Lord Jim - I really want to like it, let alone love it, yet it always lets me down on so many levels, except perhaps visually. I saw it in 70mm at the Odeon Leicester Square, London, and have never forgotten its beauty. It was the movie that made me want to go to Angkor in Cambodia, even though Richard Brooks completely squanders that extraordinary location. That man had an eye for dialogue and an ear for a picture. Even so, I hope this Blu-ray will provide me with the deeply beautiful, deeply flawed experience I crave.