A Few Words About While we wait for A few words about...™ Lawrence of Arabia -- in 4k/UHD Blu-ray

MikeP72

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I'm sure by page 397 of this thread there will be definite news.
But, then I'm an optimist.
With the excellent insight and entertainment of this thread the wait has been worth it.
 

Dee Zee

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I suggest changing the title of this thread to "While we wait...and wait...and wait...for A few words bbout LAWRENCE OF ARABIA in 4k UHD"
I suggest changing the title of this thread to "While we wait...and wait...and wait...for A few words bbout LAWRENCE OF ARABIA in 4k UHD"
It is written...
 

Ronald Epstein

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Is there even a rumor that this is going to be released to 4k disc?

I mean, Sony has been quietly releasing all their huge catalog titles exclusively to digital in 4k.

You would *think* this would be a no-brainer but the market right now for catalog titles going 4k is definitely swinging in the direction of bypassing a disc release and going directly to digital.
 
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Reed Grele

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The more that streaming with added compression and potentially lossy audio is embraced as a delivery method over physical media, the less likely it is that our beloved classics will see a 4K UHD full quality disc release. If streaming is to be the future of home theater, then why bother investing in top of the line equipment when a sub par display and a sound bar will do?
 

owen35

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The more that streaming with added compression and potentially lossy audio is embraced as a delivery method over physical media, the less likely it is that our beloved classics will see a 4K UHD full quality disc release. If streaming is to be the future of home theater, then why bother investing in top of the line equipment when a sub par display and a sound bar will do?
In many ways you are correct, but if the title makes $$$, it will get released. 2001 is a good example of a classic getting released and being profitable in the disc medium. Given Lawrence's past success and still found on the shelves of Best Buy and Target, I think it is a safe bet to assume it will make its way eventually. I would predict that we will see it this year, possibly for a holiday release.
 

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The more that streaming with added compression and potentially lossy audio is embraced as a delivery method over physical media, the less likely it is that our beloved classics will see a 4K UHD full quality disc release. If streaming is to be the future of home theater, then why bother investing in top of the line equipment when a sub par display and a sound bar will do?
Ten years ago, streaming was barely watchable. Now the best of it is virtually indistinguishable from disc. In another ten years, it will be superior.
 
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Ten years ago, streaming was barely watchable. Now the best of it is virtually indistinguishable from disc. In another ten years, it will be superior.
Whatever is in ten years, I hope it will be a lot better than today. Checked 4 movies on itunes yesterday, bitrates went up to 90 Mbps with an average closer to 15:

Samsara 4k UHD: Increased detail over Blu-ray, best reproduction of film grain that is very light in this movie anyway. This one looked the Best
The Big Lebowski 4k UHD: Film grain still mostly gone, the UHD looks a lot better
Lawrence of Arabia 4k: Slightly increased detail over the Blu-ray, the film grain is improperly resolved, especially compared to the version that I still have on my FMP-X10
The Great Gatsby 1080p: This one used to be 4k UHD on my Apple TV 4k but it isn't anymore for reasons that I do not even want to find out - enough said

Overall streaming still isn't something that I like to trust with my movie collection unless I have to - which I expect to be the case for a much larger part of my collection in 2030 and that makes me sad seeing how "my" movies are being treated and changed, this is not proper ownership for me.
 
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Ronald Epstein

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Interesting to read your thoughts on LAWRENCE.

I thought it immediately looked substantially better than the Blu-ray counterpart.
 

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That also was my first impression but switching back and forth with the Blu-ray version the improvement was less pronounced. This is also a testament to the quality of the Blu-ray that is among the best out there so I would not hold that against the itunes version as much as the improper treatment of film grain.
 

Ronald Epstein

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That also was my first impression but switching back and forth with the Blu-ray version the improvement was less pronounced. This is also a testament to the quality of the Blu-ray that is among the best out there so I would not hold that against the itunes version as much as the improper treatment of film grain.
Gotcha!

Oliver, I do need to make certain: you do have a very fast Internet connection, yes?

Even with my very fast WiFi connection, I actually had to connect my Apple TV to ethernet as grain and picture degradation were being introduced without it.
 

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Gotcha!

Oliver, I do need to make certain: you do have a very fast Internet connection, yes?

Even with my very fast WiFi connection, I actually had to connect my Apple TV to ethernet as grain and picture degradation were being introduced without it.
I can sustain bitrates of over 90 Mbps which is about 6 times of the average itunes bitrate for UHD movies and more than the average bitrate of regular UHD releases on disc so it is more than enough. It actually was enough before when I only had about half of that, average bitrates have not increased since my bandwidth increased.

I also sit very close so that does not help but then I have no issues watching Blu-rays and UHD Blu-rays at that distance except for some CGI that looks shockingly bad even in current movies.

I want streaming to be better as I suspect that soon it will be all we get for an increasing number of movies but as of now I am not happy with it.
 

Robert Crawford

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That also was my first impression but switching back and forth with the Blu-ray version the improvement was less pronounced. This is also a testament to the quality of the Blu-ray that is among the best out there so I would not hold that against the itunes version as much as the improper treatment of film grain.
Are you watching it on a projector? If so that might explain why others like myself think it's a big improvement over the Blu-ray. I think it looks wonderful on my 65" OLED.
 

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Are you watching it on a projector? If so that might explain why others like myself think it's a big improvement over the Blu-ray. I think it looks wonderful on my 65" OLED.
That may be one of the reasons. I found my LG TV to not scale Blu-rays as well as my dedicated scaler so that may increase perceived differences. Still when I checked itunes and Amazon Prime on my TV the problematic handling of film grain was also more apparent so that would not be in favor of the streaming experience.

As even I would consider the stream to look better than the Blu-ray it shows how far we have come in recent years, I would just hope that 4k streaming would be more about pushing the envelope than about how good something can be made to look on a very low bit budget.

A good way out of the bandwidth dilemma that can be hard to solve with live streaming would still be to have a ultra high quality preload or download option that also allows people who do not have high speed internet to download a movie in the best possible quality before they watch it, it would not even have to be about keeping the movie on a drive forever but just about keeping it onm the streaming device for a few days to allow the user to watch it. That would make a big difference to a lot of people and it would assure a perfect viewing experience without any changes in quality or bitrate for the whole movie.
 

Robert Crawford

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That may be one of the reasons. I found my LG TV to not scale Blu-rays as well as my dedicated scaler so that may increase perceived differences. Still when I checked itunes and Amazon Prime on my TV the problematic handling of film grain was also more apparent so that would not be in favor of the streaming experience.

As even I would consider the stream to look better than the Blu-ray it shows how far we have come in recent years, I would just hope that 4k streaming would be more about pushing the envelope than about how good something can be made to look on a very low bit budget.

A good way out of the bandwidth dilemma that can be hard to solve with live streaming would still be to have a ultra high quality preload or download option that also allows people who do not have high speed internet to download a movie in the best possible quality before they watch it, it would not even have to be about keeping the movie on a drive forever but just about keeping it onm the streaming device for a few days to allow the user to watch it. That would make a big difference to a lot of people and it would assure a perfect viewing experience without any changes in quality or bitrate for the whole movie.
Again, did you do that Blu-ray vs 4K stream comparison on your projector screen?
 

Ronald Epstein

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This is a big issue with evaluating streaming quality.

One has to consider the available Internet bandwidth to handle the stream

One also has to consider what exactly is processing that picture.

As I stated before, even with a really fast WiFi connection I had to switch to ethernet in order to sustain an image that truly looked 4k.

I am not accusing anyone in this thread of having a poor connection or not having a proper device to stream the image, but it seems to me that when we are no longer talking about viewing off a disc, there are too many variables in question when comparing a film like Lawrence of Arabia across several devices and Internet connections.
 
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Robert Crawford

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I compared it both on my 4k LG and my 4k projection setup.
Interesting as I'm not seeing the same things as you on my LG OLED.
 

Ronald Epstein

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Interesting as I'm not seeing the same things as you on my LG OLED.
Neither with my 4k JVC NX7

That was the most pristine image I have ever seen from a projector. It was just....amazing!

I was using an Apple TV.

I think what's processing the picture is just as important. An Apple TV would do much better than an Amazon Firestick. I would think, however, the apps built into the TV do very well.
 

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Neither with my 4k JVC NX7

That was the most pristine image I have ever seen from a projector. It was just....amazing!

I was using an Apple TV.

I think what's processing the picture is just as important. An Apple TV would do much better than an Amazon Firestick. I would think, however, the apps built into the TV do very well.
We have compared on very similar equipment then as I have used a JVC NX9 and the Apple TV - those JVC projectors are really nice and the NX7 is a much better value for money than the NX9!
 

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Interesting as I'm not seeing the same things as you on my LG OLED.
Well I guess you are happy with what you are seeing so this is the most important thing.

It should also be noted that I only said that the itunes version does not look that much better than the Blu-ray. This is not exactly a damning verdict given that this is one of the best Blu-Ray's out there that we are comparing to :)
 

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