1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

While we await the next Warner Archive Announcements...

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Dick, Jan 16, 2018.

Tags:
  1. Ken_Martinez

    Ken_Martinez Second Unit

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    185
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Real Name:
    Ken
    For the longest, WB forsook the Looney Tunes in favor of Batman, Scooby Doo, Harry Potter and Lego.

    We're starting to see them come back, with Space Jam 2 and the new shorts on the horizon. Now that Popeye has sold well and has demonstrated that WAC can sell old cartoons, they should be revealing their game plan soon enough.
     
    PMF and Rob_Ray like this.
  2. Message #502 of 710 Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
    Thomas T

    Thomas T Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    4,247
    Likes Received:
    3,725
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    While I can agree with you that "our collective amnesia is growing at an alarming rate", I am not as enamored of nostalgia as you are and don't see why Warners should promote it as I don't see nostalgia as a positive. In fact, artistically I see it as a dangerous thing (but hey that's just me). We can't go back. The world is moving on and while we may not like the direction it's taking, it's going there whether we like it or not. I also disagree that "the public didn't walk away from the classics. The classics have been taken off the radar". "Classics" have been taken off the radar because interest was dwindling. Yes, it used to be that "the late show" was a staple showing classic films after the 11:00 news or creature features or Abbott & Costello or Three Stooges comedies greeted us after we came home from school and before dinner and homework. But that was in the dinosaur days when we only had three networks (ABC, CBS, NBC). Before the proliferation of cable, streaming, downloading, Hulu, Netflix, youtube etc. etc. etc. The world (and the market) suddenly grew bigger and suddenly whether Jane Powell would get a date for the prom or Van Johnson would return from WWII turned into "nostalgia" and wasn't the only available choice to us and it wasn't as attractive as the voluminous buffet set before us. You have to realize that we "geezers" didn't have these choices. These old movies were our only choice in an era when old movies were an inexpensive way to fill up air time. If you think someone fed on Game Of Thrones, Breaking Bad or Mad Men will suddenly turn into Kathryn Grayson fanboys if only her movies were made available to them, well ..... :)

    No offense intended but too many HTFers live in a glass bubble and the poisonous taint of "nostalgia" where they fantasize over Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy blu ray box sets and hue and cry when Warners releases a B piece of 50s B&W sci-fi about giant fleas instead of Maytime is beyond unrealistic. It's comical. I bow to no man in my love of "classic" films and if Warners put out a June Allyson box set on blu ray, I'd sell my mother (if she were alive) to Somali pirates to pay for it! And I'm grateful to every crumb the Warners Archives tosses my way.
     
    PMF, Conrad_SSS, JohnMor and 6 others like this.
  3. Worth

    Worth Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,202
    Likes Received:
    2,242
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Nick Dobbs
    But that was never about promoting nostalgia or "the classics", that was about cheap programming. Somewhere along the line someone invented the infomercial and it all went bye-bye.
     
  4. Randy Korstick

    Randy Korstick Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2000
    Messages:
    4,825
    Likes Received:
    3,121
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Well said Thomas. Its been said before WAC is not a charity for film buffs and lovers of nostalgia. Yes it would be great if all the classics were available on blu ray. WAC does well releasing them in great condition but their catalog is vast and there are so many titles to release some more profitable than others and some needing more restoration than others, so Warner has to pick and chose. Many classics we want including the majority of titles listed will not sell more than 2-3,000 titles in todays shrinking blu ray market. See sales of Twilight Time and Kino for reference. So just because a classic Jean Harlow film is more "worthy" than The Giant Behemoth or Frankenstein 1970 doesn't mean that Warner should spend the huge dollars restoring it and transferring to blu ray to sell 2,000 copies and lose most of their investment. It just doesn't make sense from a business perspective. If you want more reasons why they keep releasing b sci-fi/horror movies besides the fact that they have always sold extremely well on blu ray just look at all the comments about 4 for $44 sales. I'm sure that many but not all would wait for these sales as they currently do if WAC suddenly released everything on these classics lists. By contrast the majority that buy the b sci-fi/horror films buy them on release for $18-$20. Less cost to restore, higher number sold, higher number sold at full price. Its really not hard at all to see why WAC is releasing what they release. But they still do a good job releasing a variety of classics from musicals, westerns, noir, war films, dramas and popeye cartoons. Just not as many as we would like to see.
     
    PMF, benbess, Conrad_SSS and 2 others like this.
  5. Nick*Z

    Nick*Z Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    1,537
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Canada
    Real Name:
    NICK
    Dear Thomas: not suggesting anyone who follows Game of Thrones would be into Kathryn Grayson either. But there's room for all tastes. Someone still likes the classics. Someone always does. That's why they're 'classics' and not the disposable drivel that comes and goes and is never heard from again. And, given the proliferation of cable, there's more than ample room for 'old school' to find both its home and its niche in contemporary society. Not sure what you're getting at by suggesting 'nostalgia' is dangerous. Would like to hear more of that argument, please.

    Looking back with fondness toward a simpler time is not the same as burying one's head in the sand like an ostrich, praying the outside world will just go away. But movies of a certain vintage used to offer us escape and escapism. Today's movies instead seek to assault us with more of the reality we already know and would generally like to take a break from; only now, it is hyper-fused and melded to a morbid curiosity to promote, or at the very least, explore the moral turpitude and counter-culture that, in the 'ole days' would not have been even hinted at, much less discussed, or represented in the movies as 'the norm'.

    I stand behind my argument. There's room for all. Second, movies - of ANY vintage are a cultural artifact. As such, they are worthy of preservation, promotion and renewed study. Locking the treasures of old away until they turn to chalk, and then quietly forgetting about them altogether is NOT an option. Those who set aside history are doomed to repeat it - famous last words from a tyrant who understood humanity's mad inhuman noise, and tragically contributed to it too. Don't throw away the past. Embrace it.

    It's a part of us - where we started, a barometer for how far we've come, and hopefully, a great place to visit on a rainy, sunny or snowy afternoon - when we need a blessed little reminder of how good life used to 'pretend' to be. I'm not naive, Thomas. But I do value 'the value' and 'values' that classic cinema inculcated under the rubric of mere entertainment. Today's Hollywood doesn't even try to be clever. They're just very much in your face and its difficult to see how society is better for this. Instead, it has become rather monotonous and tiring to go to the movies. We leave, not entertained or even enlightened, but indoctrinated with dark and ugly thoughts about how awful a place the world can be - and likely is - instead of, like Hemingway, thinking more altruistic thoughts like "the world is a fine place...and worth fighting for..." Just thoughts. Always interested in hearing yours.
     
    Ed Lachmann, PMF and John Hermes like this.
  6. Nick*Z

    Nick*Z Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2003
    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    1,537
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Canada
    Real Name:
    NICK
    Agreed, it was never about promoting anything, rather filling dead air. But inadvertently, such proliferation promoted the collective consciousness to explore entertainments made by some other generation other than their own. And the info-mercial is a pretty poor substitute for that! The gradual 'dumbing down' of the audience continues because each new generation doesn't know these things exist - by and large. So, if your mom never saw a Bette Davis movie, can she tell you what a Bette Davis movie is like, or promote all the reasons why you should see one too? Too philosophical?

    How can I put this another way? If you never saw an apple in your life, would you eat one? How could you, right? You wouldn't even know the apple's out there for your consumption. Ergo, you wouldn't know where to look for it either. So, your interest in the apple would be nonexistent. So, no apple. No apple cider. No apple pie. Is this because no one at your house likes apples, apple pie or apple cider? Uh...no. It's because they've never experienced it. Life is about experiences. Shouldn't you be allowed to decide for yourself what you want to eat? Or would you rather some omnipotent puppet master just keep you in the dark about new experiences simply because they cannot be bothered to promote apples in your neighborhood?

    Older movies are like this too. You need to see one to know they are out there to be seen if you so desire. But it still should be your choice and at your pleasure. Not because I, or anyone else says that you can or cannot.
     
    Ed Lachmann likes this.
  7. Message #507 of 710 Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
    PMF

    PMF Producer

    Joined:
    May 6, 2015
    Messages:
    4,118
    Likes Received:
    4,544
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Philip
    Edited by PMF
     
  8. Message #508 of 710 Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
    Thomas T

    Thomas T Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2001
    Messages:
    4,247
    Likes Received:
    3,725
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    I agree that there will always be a place for classic cinema. Younger generations will still find them and fall in love with them as we did. But, and it's a very big but, it's a shrinking niche (and a niche it will remain). And it's gotten to the point that anything prior to 1975 or 1977 (Jaws and Star Wars) is irrelevant to younger generations. True story: I was discussing Straw Dogs with two young actors and they really liked the film. But when I mentioned that it might be my favorite Dustin Hoffman performance, they looked perplexed and said he wasn't in the movie. It was with horror that I realized they were talking about the 2011 remake with James Marsden in Hoffman's part. When I explained I was referring to the original 1971 film, they expressed surprise as they didn't know the 2011 film was a remake!!! So if a 1971 classic film (much less films of the 30s, 40s, 50s) is outside the radar of the younger generation, what hope is there for Errol Flynn swashbucklers, Deanna Durbin musicals, Esther Williams swimming epics and Van Johnson wartime romances?

    I absolutely concur with you that movies of any vintage are a cultural artifact and worthy of preservation. That is why third party funding for preservation efforts is important (we can't depend on the studios to safeguard their own heritage) and organizations like the American Film Institute and the Library Of Congress are important. Which is not the same thing as putting them out on blu ray. Who knows? Perhaps the trend toward streaming and downloading may be classic film's savior.

    As for my comments about nostalgia being dangerous: Art is fluid and constantly changing. Nostalgia is dangerous in that it can prevent Art from moving forward, from changing and exploring and pushing the envelope. Nostalgia can make us look at the past through rose colored glasses and a simpler and more beautiful world. But simple and beautiful for who? Women? People of color? Homosexuals? Hardly. They were either invisible, objects of derision or knew their place. Kate Hepburn could be a modern and independent woman but by the end of the film, she knew her place and it was letting Spencer Tracy take charge. I love classic films and I accept that it was a different era and can still enjoy a film even through the uncomfortable bits (an eye rolling Willie Best scared of ghosts or the sissies of Franklin Pangborn etc.).

    End of rant :)
     
  9. TravisR

    TravisR Studio Mogul

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Messages:
    33,740
    Likes Received:
    10,884
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    The basement of the FBI building
    I've had someone in their 20's tell me that they like the current SW sequels but they don't think they've even seen the originals and have no interest in seeing them.



    I always point out that it's not like the average young person in the 1950's cared about silent movies or big band music. Kids are interested in what's new and not what their parents or grandparents liked. Personally, I'd love it if the average high schooler was suddenly into Billy Wilder or Alfred Hitchcock or The Twilight Zone or EC Comics or the Ramones or The Beatles but that doesn't change my enjoyment of those things.
     
    PMF, Conrad_SSS and Thomas T like this.
  10. ahollis

    ahollis Lead Actor
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2007
    Messages:
    7,588
    Likes Received:
    3,130
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Real Name:
    Allen
    Last night I introduced a few of the vitaphone shorts to several mid 20 year olds. They were amazed and completely into them. They said they had no idea that there were such talented performers on film and reluctantly said they never watch Black and White or movies more that 20 years old. They became fans and are clamoring to see not only more shorts but films from that era. I won over 7 people. Saturday night will be a second showing. The count is now up to 10 newbies.

    All that’s needs to be done is to find a way to expose them to our classics.
     
  11. OliverK

    OliverK Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2000
    Messages:
    4,045
    Likes Received:
    2,003
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Very good points. To get ahead and be able to release a lot more older and less than profitable movies the studios should try some kind of adopt-a-movie program like the zoos have for animals, it seems to work very well there on a smaller scale and it would be a rather cool thing to have the name of a film lover or a company attached to the release of a movie on DVD and Blu-ray or even UHD disc.
     
  12. Billy Batson

    Billy Batson Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,301
    Likes Received:
    2,048
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Location:
    London
    Real Name:
    Alan
    I thought that the Archive releases were an offshoot of the ongoing Warner restoration program, so the Blu-ray sales don't need to cover the cost of all the work they have to do, as they'd be doing it anyway. As usual, it's wait & hope for the middle of next month.
     
    Ed Lachmann likes this.
  13. Message #513 of 710 Mar 28, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
    Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    44,347
    Likes Received:
    19,987
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    George Feltenstein has made it perfectly clear that's not the case when it comes to disc replication on their WA podcasts. Restorations are going on all the time, but those are still budgeted projects and not necessarily tied to being released on physical media.

    Some of us need to accept the fact that disc sales are down significantly from what they were 15 years ago. There is a financial reason why studio physical media releases of today are not at the numbers back in the heyday of DVD. Studios are in the business of making money. A plain and simple concept that keeps getting lost in these type of discussions.
     
    PMF, Conrad_SSS and Thomas T like this.
  14. AnthonyClarke

    AnthonyClarke Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    1,446
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Woodend Victoria Australia
    Real Name:
    Anthony
    Damn that drop in sales. I guess we'd better invest in physical media while we still can.....
     
    Ed Lachmann and PMF like this.
  15. aPhil

    aPhil Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2011
    Messages:
    701
    Likes Received:
    738
    Trophy Points:
    610
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Real Name:
    Phil Smoot
    Physical Media accounted for 17% of Home Entertainment sales in 2018.
    Even if drops to 10%, that is a big chunk of change.
    When the day (soon or sometime or who knows) comes that we can purchase high resolution files that equal or surpass Blu-ray and UHD and one can store on backup hard drives (or other such) and truly possess a copy, then I will abandon the "disc".
     
    Ed Lachmann likes this.
  16. JohnMor

    JohnMor Producer
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    5,012
    Likes Received:
    2,149
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Real Name:
    John Moreland
    And in the last year, both Oppo and Samsung have gotten out of the disc player market completely. Especially concerning when Samsung had the largest market share and still called it quits.
     
    AnthonyClarke likes this.
  17. battlebeast

    battlebeast Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    1,309
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Real Name:
    Warren
    I want all of those!!
     
    PMF likes this.
  18. Brandon Conway

    Brandon Conway captveg

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Messages:
    9,275
    Likes Received:
    1,794
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    North Hollywood, CA
    Real Name:
    Brandon Conway
    Re: 1920s-1950s titles - I suspect a lot of the bigger ones are on Criterion's slate. We already know Criterion has The Cameraman, so I wouldn't be surprised if that release also ends up having Spite Marriage as a bonus feature. There's strong indications that Criterion also has Captain Blood, Bringing Up Baby, Arsenic and Old Lace, The Roaring Twenties, I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang (I believe these all went OOP at WB the same time as other titles which have already come from Criterion), and with the release of Swing Time, they likely have a couple more of the better Astaire Rogers titles, with Top Hat almost assuredly being with Criterion. I can see Criterion wanting A Night at the Opera as well. And though they already have a Blu-ray release from WB, I feel that Criterion would love to have King Kong and Citizen Kane back in the collection since they have been trying to regain former Criterion Laserdisc titles whenever they can, and I can't see another WB release of these anytime soon. Greed, The Crowd, The Wind, The Bad and the Beautiful, Freaks - these would be ideal Criterion releases if WB can't justify doing a ton of titles from this era.

    Just look at the titles from this era that Criterion already got from WB and it certainly fits a pattern:

    The Asphalt Jungle
    The Breaking Point
    Cat People
    A Face in the Crowd
    The Magnificent Ambersons
    Mildred Pierce
    The Philadelphia Story
    Swing Time
    They Live by Night
    Woman of the Year



    Of course, we all know the real classic that Criterion needs to release from the Warner vaults is The Devils. Someday, maybe.... someday.
     
  19. AnthonyClarke

    AnthonyClarke Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,001
    Likes Received:
    1,446
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Woodend Victoria Australia
    Real Name:
    Anthony
    I presume the Fred and Ginger titles Criterion would consider releasing would be 'Top Hat' and 'The Gay Divorcee'. Both splendid movies .. but I would add 'Follow the Fleet' which has some superb sequences including the dual- failed suicide Casino number where Ginger looks particularly wonderful.
    Actually, I want them all. How about 'Flying Down to Rio' with all those scantily-clad girls risking their lives for us on the wings of those planes! (no spoilers please ......)
     
    PMF and ahollis like this.
  20. Ken_Martinez

    Ken_Martinez Second Unit

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    185
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Real Name:
    Ken
    I wonder if WB will be more receptive to licensing titles out under AT&T. Major shakeup of things are the name of the game
     

Share This Page