which tv's do the best 4x3 stretch?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ted Lee, Oct 10, 2001.

  1. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    hi all -
    i was in my local av shop on sunday and the guy was telling me about how the pioneer elites are the only tv's that stretch just the outer-edge of the picture...basically leaving most of the center intact. he also mentioned how the stretch feature on most other tv's is very noticeable and can cause pixelation during "intense" scenes.
    i sure would love to pick up a 6K elite tv, but i'm pretty sure that's out of my range.
    so i was just wondering what you all thought of your 16x9's. how is the stretch and has it caused you any dis-comfort?
    tia
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  2. Han

    Han Second Unit

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    Yes Pioneer Elites are very good. No, they are not the only ones with a "smooth stretch". Hitachi's got one, Toshiba, I'm sure there are others.
    I think Toshiba's is quite good, and I think it's because they cheat a little. If you look at an image in 4x3 "normal" mode with the gray bars, then switch to the smooth stretching "theater wide 1" mode, you'll see that about 4% of the picture gets cut off the top and bottom (about 2% each). This really doesn't affect much, and can be compensated with messing around with the vertical size.
    Don't let that be the main selling point for your 16x9 TV purchase. If you need that, just make sure whichever set you look at has it. IMHO, the different manufacturers' implementation of it is quite acceptable.
     
  3. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    that's good to know...thanks han!
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  4. Andrew Beacom

    Andrew Beacom Supporting Actor

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    I have a Toshiba and the stretch is pretty good. Some people even consider Toshiba's the best. I haven't seen an Elite so I can't comment but I think it's fair to say the salesman either doesn't know other TV's do it or just wanted you to buy an Elite.
     
  5. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    I agree, the Toshibas have a very good stretch mode. Not as good as the Pioneer Elite, but very nice.
    However, you don.t need to but an ELite to get the Elite stretch modes. Take a look at the new 2002 Pioneer Home RPTVs, the SD-533-HD5 and the SD-643-HD5. They have a slightly modified version of the line doubler and picture control circuits that are in the 510/610/710 Elite models. They do cost more than the Toshibas, but they are quite a bit less than the Elite.
    FYI, if you are interested in viewing NTSC or other 4:3 interlaced inputs, stay far, far away from the Mitsubishi sets. IMO the Mits have a horrible line doubler and their stretch modes are just plain ugly. Again IMO, the new Toshibas HX models and the Pioneer Home sets are both just as good or even better than any of the Mits sets, particularly with NTSC and other interlaced inputs.
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    Dan
     
  6. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    thanks guys...i am strongly considering the toshibas. they just seem to have a pretty good rep.
    i guess i'm going to have to force the sales-guy to put up some 4x3 material and see how the stretch is. [​IMG]
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  7. Tim Markley

    Tim Markley Screenwriter

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    Dan - I have to chip in here and say that I strongly disagree with you in regards to Mitsubishi. I have a WS-65907 and the picture that I get with DirecTV and DVDs is outstanding. I watch DirecTV 80% of the time in Stretch mode and I don't even notice the stretch. Sure there's some channels that don't look great but that's a result of the compression from DirecTV not the Mitsubishi. I find that most people that put down the Mitsubishi sets have never seen a properly calibrated set. I agree that the Pioneer Elite is a superior set out of the box but it also costs a LOT more. For less than the cost of the Elite you can buy a Mitsubishi and a DVDO ISCAN Pro and have a superior picture.
     
  8. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    Tim,
    No offense but just because you have become accustomed to watching your Mits in stretch mode does not mean that it does it well. If you would like graphic evidence of how poor the Mits line doubler and stretch mode are relative to Toshiba or Pioneer, go to any Good Guys, Best Buy or other store that has them on display and look at them with the same feed. True, you will be looking at uncal'd sets, but I have looked at a lot and the simple fact is that, compared to Toshiba and Pioneer, the Mits LD and stretch come in a distance 3rd.
    BTW, I'm was not comparing the Mits to the Pioneer Elites, I was comparing it to the Pioneer Home models. The Pioneer SD-533 costs about $1k less than the Mits Diamond WS-55908, doesn't need the external doubler and IMO has better picture and build quality. I'm not saying that Mits are bad sets, I just think that for the same or even less money that you can do better. In fact, if most or all of your watching is DVDs and HD, Mits may be a good choice (if you can see through the [now correctable] red push. [​IMG] )
    I agree that putting a DVDO IScan Pro on a Mitsubishi RPTV would provide a superior picture for interlaced inputs. Which simply proves my point, the line doubler in the Mits isn't very good. Putting the DVDO on a Pioneer would not net nearly the improvement that you would see on the Mits, IMO.
    There seems to be a what I feel has become an undeserved reverence for Mitsubishi RPTVs in this and other forums. I'm going to guess that this is because for a long time the only decent RPTVs were Mits and Pioneer Elite. Since the Elite was out of the price range of most people, Mits was #1. But folks, Mits is not the only game in town any longer. In fact, a lot of people don't think they are even 2nd best in their price ranges anymore. There are a lot of new sets on the market that many people feel are as good as or better than the Mits and that cost the same or less. Pioneer Home and Toshiba are my favorites, some people think Hitachi is pretty good, others like RCA, etc.
     
  9. Tim Markley

    Tim Markley Screenwriter

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    Dan - Sorry, but looking at a bunch of uncalibrated sets that are typically in 'torch' mode at Good Guys, Best Buy, etc. proves absolutely nothing. I'll be the first to admit that the Mitsubishi sets are not great out of the box but with just a little bit of work they are just as good or better than everything else out there. The line doubler isn't great but it's not terrible either. Red push isn't even an issue because EVERY TV comes with a degree of red push and it's easily defeated on the Mitsubishi.
    When it comes to build quality, I'd put my Mitsubishi Diamond up against anything out there. I looked at Toshiba and didn't like the cheap plastic look and feel of their cabinets and a few of the sets were actually falling apart. The Mitsubishi Diamond cabinet is very solid and compares to the Pioneer Elite.
    I won't even touch your statement of 'undeserved reverence for Mitsubishi' because that's obviously just your opinion.
    You could say the same thing for any brand/model of any product ever made.
    Do yourself a favor and pop into the Mitsubishi section of
    The Home Theater Spot and maybe you'll learn something about Mitsubishi RPTVs. I'm sure that there's someone there that lives in your area that will gladly show you what a properly calibrated Mitsubishi looks like.
     
  10. Matt Heebner

    Matt Heebner Stunt Coordinator

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    I also feel that Mitsubishi's are probably the best bang for buck HD RPTV out there. When I was looking, I narrowed it down to the Toshiba and Mits. I compared both side by side with DVD's and HD, and I feel that the Mits was the superior TV.
    There is so much information out there for tweaking Mits to their fullest potential that I would even put a tweaked and calibrated Mits against the "praised" Pioneer Elite. I have read of ISF techs doing just that, and getting very similar comparisons.
    As with everything audio and video related, its going to come down to personal taste and preference.IMHO, Mits cant be touched for picture or build quality without spending considerably more money...again IMHO!
    Matt
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  11. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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