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Discussion in 'Speakers' started by ArthurJ, Oct 28, 2003.
2200: PB1-ISD or 20-39PCi - $600 range.
Servo-15: 20-39PC+ or PB1+ or PB2-ISD - $800-$1000 range.
I'd disagree with those matchups;
SVS 20-39CS(not ISD)&Fidek FPA-3002 - 109.5 / 20hz~91db__25hz~105.8
Paradigm PW2200 - 107.4dB / 20hz~91dB(106.25)
Paradigm Servo15 - 107.3dB /21hz
That's the old SVS driver and it still beats both subs. The new driver (ISD), adds a good 4-6db especially in the lower range where the old driver was much more prone to bottoming out.
I'd say the servo15 only ballparks with the PB1-ISD.
i thought the isd was the old driver?
ISD stands for Improved Standard Driver. From most of the reviews it is darn close to the Plus driver.
The ISD does not add 4-6 dB over the original SVS driver. With the 325 watt BASH amp included in the mix, it is more like 2 dB, with somewhat greater thermal power handling and resistance to bottoming.
The dB-12 Plus driver has about a 3 dB advantage over the ISD in the >30 Hz region. Below 30 Hz, that advantage stretches to about 5 dB.
So add about 2 dB to the original SVS numbers above and you are still in the ballpark for the 2200's performance, although the SVS is still better. Tom V has said in the past the 2200 and the PCi have similar clean output capabilities and he respects the 2200 as a decent sub.
Also remember that the Nousaine numbers normally use a 10% THD as an SPL limit. But the Servo-15 has (ostensibly) a servo circuit that will artificially limit output at the lowest frequencies to probably somewhere in the 2-3% THD region. Nousaine can't bypass the servo circuit, so what you are seeing is a similar sound pressure as the 2200 and the original 20-39, albeit at a lower distortion level than 10%. The Servo-15 has a lot more left in the tank if you could somehow allow a higher THD level.
Of course that is a moot point, because the servo circuit does limit output. But overall, if you looked at 25 Hz and 30 Hz, you would fine the Servo 15 more comparable to the single driver Plus subwoofers in total output.
Taking your comments and mine into context, the thing to remember is that there is probably no "perfect" match-up between the Paradigm and SVS models, but that is about as close as I could come for performance and price points.
I own a PCi20-39, and it is pretty astounding the levels it reaches. I've heard the servo-15, and ironically, that immediately convinced me of the need to buy the SVS, because it sounded so good, but was way too expensive for me. I would try to draw a comparison, but it's just too hard, as I didn't listen carefully to the servo.
Well I have both drivers so I know how limited the old driver was. Do you really think everyone upgraded the driver for a measely 2db?
After a bunch of post research here and at other forums, I stand corrected and concur with you. I was relying on memory and slipped a gear cog somewhere along the line.
You are correct, the advantage of the current generation SVS ISD over the first generation SVS driver is somewhere in the 4-6 dB region depending on frequency and alignment and with the new amp also included.
So even though you can't buy a less expensive SVS, I would agree than the current generation CS and PCi would better the 2200 by somewhere in the 4-6 dB region in clean (THD limited) output. In other words at least twice the clean output (where a doubling of sonic output is 3dB).
That said, I've heard the 2200 and it did a fairly impressive ass-kicking in movies like Pearl Harbor and TS2. It didn't seem to have much useable output under 25hz, but above that it was very capable.
The SPL figures seem to suggest that the 2200 and servo15 are about equal? (The servo15 is missing the 20db spec) What makes the servo15 superior?
Keep in mind that Paradigm upgraded the PW2200 to version 2 that has a larger amp. The previous version had a 250 watt RMS 750 watt peak amplifier while version 2 has a 400 watt RMS 1500 watt peak amplifier. Not sure how this would effect comparisons to some of the SVS subs. Just thought I would pass on the info.
One thing to keep in mind when you here folks comparing the old SVS CS/PC 12" driver to the new ISD driver...some of them may have had somewhat "tired" old drivers.. By *tired* I mean if they have been over driven quite a few times...to the point of the voice coil actually becoming deformed by contact with another component in the driver. In my FR and distortion tests, the new ISD performed marginally better...staying a little flatter down low...and offering something like 1.25 to 2dBs of more clean output. (I'm guessing this is where Ed got his figures from...one of my posts) We have had a lot of email feedback from folks upgrading to the ISD saying (paraphrasing)...
"Wow, the ISD made a BIG improvement, I thought you said it might only add a dB or so? I measured 3,4,5,6(insert 1)dBs more output before I noticed any straining at all from the new driver...thanks!"
But we still estimate a couple dBs whenever asked. I figure it is better for them to be pleasantly surprised than to expect 4-6dBs and only see half of that.
All the Paradigms have gotten upgrades to...bigger amps mainly I think. But as good as the pw2200 was, even a minor upgrade like a bigger amp is cool. I would expect the new pw2200 to be right near the top of the Tom Nousaine list once he has a chance to measure it.