Which SVS for a 2nd sub?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by BrianWoerndle, Feb 21, 2005.

  1. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    It has only been 2 months since I got my SVS 20-39CS. It has opened worlds of new bass to me. But, there is a problem. The SVS will play anything that I throw at it, and because of that, I run out of headroom on action movies. I like to listen to my movies loud. I often listen at reference level (00 on my 3803). On normal movies, it is great. But on action movies the amp clips more than it should. And on LOTR:RTK I bottomed the sub a few times.

    So, I need more headroom. And I have an extra amp channel on my Samson S-700 (which is probably what bugs me the most, having gear that is not being fully used). Now comes the big question:

    Which SVS to get. Since I have the extra amp channel, I only need a passive cylinder.

    My response chartThe black line is after BFD. I have a nice hump at 20hz, and a slight roll off above 30hz (30-60hz is about -5 db compared to 20hz). Yes, you heard me right, 20hz is my loudest frequency. And I am only down about -2db at 16hz. The dip at 63hz is the crossover and the dip at 110hz is a room node. Also, my crossover is set to 60hz, and the graph shows the room response with the crossover enabled, so the upper portion of the chart is really the Studio 20's.


    Option 1: 20-39CS Just double up what I have. I should get about 6db more headroom, which is what I need.

    Option 2: 25-31CS The 25-31 is the strongest sub from 30+hz. So I figure it might help the roll off of my current sub. Since the BFD is 2 channels, I could equalize each sub seperatly, but that would be a hard task.

    Option 3: 16-46CS OK, I know it is more of an ego thing, but who wouldn't want a 46" tall sub that can hit 10hz? It may not help my top end as much (which is really what I am looking for), but knowing I could hit the ultimate depths would be cool.

    My room is 13'-6" x 12'-0" x 8'-0". It has plaster walls and hardwood floors. I have added (4) 4'x6' 1" fiberglass acoustical panels which helps deaden the room. 00 on my 3803 is calibrated to DVE reference level. During movies, normal dialog usually is in the low 90db range, and action parts hit around 100db. I know it is loud, but I like it to sound like the theater. Explosions hit the mid 100db range.
     
  2. ScottCarr

    ScottCarr Second Unit

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    I would recommend:
    Option 1: to keep the system the same
    Option 2: add a new dynamic to the setup which might you a little more "punch" to the setup
    Option 3: dig a little deeper

    What would I buy? 2531 for the added punch.

    Scott
     
  3. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

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    I would go with option 3. While you may not gain as much headroom as with options 1 or 2, you will still gain some. You'll also be adding the additional depth.

    Or, you could get a 25-31 AND a 16-46 and have them in the corner looking kind of like organ pipes[​IMG]
     
  4. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    Don't tempt me. My wallet can't handle it. That is why I like the idea of the 25-31, because the passive cylinder is cheap. But I am not aganist spending a little more for a 39 or 46 if everyone thinks it will give me better sound.
     
  5. Lee-c

    Lee-c Second Unit

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    I'd go with the 16-46, it will add some punch up top, but will also give you that really deep
    bass that only the bottom trawling 46 can. [​IMG] Which will mean you don't have to push the
    other sub so hard to try to get the same powerful deep bass effect, which may be part of the
    reason you have to crank the volume so much in the first place to get that sort of bass effect.

    The Lord of the Rings at DD Ref.? Whoa, that must be *super* loud. [​IMG] I watch them at -6dB
    and that is thunderous, just in the mids and highs, not even counting the bass.
     
  6. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    What? ... What? ... What did you say?

    Yeah, LOTR is super loud. Unless I am in the mood for total punishment, I will sometimes listen at -4 or -5. But it still pushes the SVS to its limits.
     
  7. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Option 1: 20-39CS Just double up what I have. I should get about 6db more headroom, which is what I need.
    __________________________________________________ ___

    Imo Option 1 will serve you the most appropriately. If you go any other rout, (some) of the benefit will be stripped away by a differently tuned sub. You will still gain, but not what you would achieve going with another like sub. Since it's the middle of the road 20-39, you should be well off with dual 20's.

    When I added the PC-Ultra to my past 3 25CS+,s 6db of the 12db gain was canceled out down low. It still was a 6db gain that I didn't have in the lower frequencies though. I never did plan on it working out really but since I had it I had to try. Talk about headroom[​IMG]

    I took a 20 Hz tuned AV-15 and added it to the mix once and it had the same effect.
     
  8. SethH

    SethH Cinematographer

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    Just a thought . . . have you considered going up to a plus or ultra woofer when your get the new one? You could add a 20-39CS+ instead. It would cost more, but may would give even more added headroom.
     
  9. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    How will the CS+ do with the Samson S-700 amp? Since I just got the 20-39 and S700, I am not really looking to change the amp.
     
  10. Michael Brand

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    Brian,

    I strongly recommend that you go for another 20-39. If you get another sub with a different tune you will hear the difference, and one or both will be "locatable", that is you will know where the bass is coming from, and probably from the one with the lowest tune.

    This recommendation is based on experience. I have dual 20-39's, and tried tuning one to 16 hz, and could really tell where it was at when playing any music with decent bass. With both of them at the same tune my whole room is filled with great bass. I have them both on the front wall, near but not in the corners, and non-symetrically placed (different distances from the sidewalls) as most recommend. Both in the same corner will maximize SPL, but placed like I have them evens out room response.

    Dual subs worked great for me, and really evened out the response in my whole room, giving a much larger "sweet spot". It gave me a solid wall of bass feeling coming from the whole front of the room. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  11. SVS-Ron

    SVS-Ron Screenwriter

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    Brian,

    I would second the idea you get an identical CS, place it next to the first, but also add our SVS-01 subsoic filter box. It has phase (which will be vital if you do NOT put the two CS's side by side as we'd recommend) and the ability to blend in a nice 20hz filter that will allow you to push both CS's harder than you can now without one (unless you do have one and I didn't note that).

    The combination of dual CS subs, a bit more gain on the front end (the Samsons can be tough to drive to full capacity with the voltages coming from some receiver sub outs, the SVS-01 has 18dB of squeaky clean pre-amp gain), and the subsonic filtering will be a revelation I think.

    Ron
     

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