Which sub is more musical?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jason_Me, Jul 28, 2002.

  1. Jason_Me

    Jason_Me Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm looking for a sub that will be used 100% for music. I've narrowed my search down to two subs:

    SVS 16-46PCi with Art 351 equalizer $779

    Velodyne SPL 1200 $795


    Which one should give the most musical performance, and seamless integration into a bookshelf system? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
     
  2. Ken Garrison

    Ken Garrison Supporting Actor

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    My uncle has that 120 Watt Sony Subwoofer. That thing sounds great with music.
     
  3. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Ken, both subs mentioned by Jason are a major step up from a 120W Sony in both output and sound quality. Not to belittle the Sony or anything, but if you think it sounds great for music you're in for a treat when you first hear a higher end sub.

    Jason, you won't be disappointed with either. Although the SVS will extend lower and go louder. Plus you are showing you can get an EQ for it as well that will help tame room problems (this can make a huge difference). I'll mention you may want to consider a Behringer Feedback Destroyer over the Art though (can be found for around $125).

    As for more musical, I'll provide you with two quotes from other threads. The first if from Jack Gilvey (he has a way of getting straight to the point), the second is from me, saying the same thing in a much more long winded way.

     
  4. Roger Kint

    Roger Kint Stunt Coordinator

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    I believe the Velo is more musical because:

    1) Sealed enclosures are generally more accurate than ported enclosures. There are exceptions of course but this seems to be the general rule. At least in theory(in practice, there are actually some ported subs more accurate/musical than sealed ones, though).

    2) The velo has less distortion, less than 5% typ vs 10% for the SVS.

    3) Velo can't match the SVS in terms of SPL levels, but this is for 100% music, so you don't need the high SPL as much as for 100% HT.

    Also you may want to consider the HSU VTF-3 as I've read good reviews on that sub being more musical than the SVS. If you could get your hands on all three that would be the best way to decide, that way you'll know for sure what sounds the best to you.
     
  5. KeithBR

    KeithBR Agent

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    Get a VTF-3 if music is what you are into.
    I have both brands of subs (SVS & VTF-3) and IMHO the VTF-3 sounds better (round and full) for music.
     
  6. Jason_Me

    Jason_Me Stunt Coordinator

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    Everyone on the avsforum is mentioning a bloating sound between 68 and 74Hz with the Hsu VTF-3. I plan on x-ing the sub over at 80Hz, so that would be a problem.
     
  7. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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    Roger says:
    "I believe the Velo is more musical because:

    1) Sealed enclosures are generally more accurate than ported enclosures. There are exceptions of course but this seems to be the general rule. At least in theory(in practice, there are actually some ported subs more accurate/musical than sealed ones, though).

    2) The velo has less distortion, less than 5% typ vs 10% for the SVS."

    Roger, where did you gather this information from?

    I take it that in #1 you have not listened to both these subs in direct A-B?

    Do you have the SPL's and other measuring conditions of #2?

    Just label me curious.
     
  8. Roger Kint

    Roger Kint Stunt Coordinator

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    .
     
  9. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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  10. Roger Kint

    Roger Kint Stunt Coordinator

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  11. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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    Roger says: "I got the distortion figures from the respective mfgs and also on this forum. I don't remember or have the conditions, but you can ask the mfgs for that."

    I could find no distortion figures on the SVS site.

    The Velodyne site lists "less than .5% distortion" for the HG-15 II, but gives no SPL or frequency. (Meaningless)

    Dustin B quotes some of Tom Nousaine's measurements that I think put things into perspective, and bear no resemblance to the figures Roger posted.

    IMHO we should be careful of throwing numbers around here in an effort to steer audiophiles towards one product or another without knowing where these figures came from or the specifics of the measurements.
     
  12. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    On the distortion stuff, the older VELs (back to the F series) used to go weel above 10" when pressed. Not sure about the FSR series...but from what I've seen..the new HGS series caps THD
     
  13. Pete Jennings

    Pete Jennings Second Unit

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    Jason, if WAF didn't have a play in the decision, I would have bought the SVS over the SPL1200. That said, I bought the SPL1200 and *to me* music is absolutely incredible. That little beast blends in very well with my B&W 602S2 bookshelf speakers. I don't see a bad decision here either way. I'm sure you could find someone in the Bay area that would let you hear their SVS sub to compare to a dealer's SPL1200.
    I really had planned on buying the SVS "Tower O' Power" 20-39PCI when I first started on my quest. I'm sure I would be saying that it sounds great with my speakers had I bought it instead. [​IMG]
    Good luck on the purchase!
    Pete
     
  14. KeithBR

    KeithBR Agent

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    No Jason,
    2 guys out of hundreds of post have mentioned the bloating in this range, and one of those guys, firepinch, has solved the problem. It has to do with their room modes and not the VTF-3. I had to use a P-EQ with my SVS sub to tame my room. Now I have no bloat at any hz with the SVS sub, even while playing at reference levels. I never had one with the Hsu.

    Both the SVS and Hsu products are incredible for their prices. No other subs can out perform either one of them under $1000. I have both and equally enjoy them, I just feel the VTF-3 has the edge for music over SVS.
    When it comes to HT I cant pick a winner. They are both equally awesome. I am amazed & upset at the same time, when I think of how much money I have spent on subs in the past that did not even give me this much performance.

    You just cant go wrong with either purchase. You can save a little money by going with SVS's new PC+ sub being released in August. One thing I will say about SVS, they have without a doubt, one of the best staffs in the business.
     
  15. Greg_R

    Greg_R Screenwriter

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    As Keith and others have mentioned, room modes play a large part with in-room bass response. Get a parametric EQ (BFD, etc.) or other method of room tuning with whatever sub you decide to purchase...
     
  16. Alex Prosak

    Alex Prosak Supporting Actor

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    Tom,
    That new design you're toying with sounds awesome. When do we get to hear it?[​IMG]
     
  17. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>Tom,

    That new design you're toying with sounds awesome. When do we get to hear it
     
  18. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Tom,

    When talking about the distortion rise, it sounds (pun unintentional) a lot like an amplifier prior to clipping in terms of behaviour.

    Is this drastic rise in distortion relating to running out of excursion, or cone breakup? Colour me as curious about the physical factors involved in the clipping

    Regards,
     
  19. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Will you at least spill the driver size Tom? Maybe even whether it's vented or PR?
     
  20. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>Tom,
    When talking about the distortion rise, it sounds (pun unintentional) a lot like an amplifier prior to clipping in terms of behaviour.
    Is this drastic rise in distortion relating to running out of excursion, or cone breakup? Colour me as curious about the physical factors involved in the clipping
    Regards,
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Contributing Editor,
    Widescreen Review
     

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