Which should I get first Pre/Pro or SVS sub?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Aaron Cooke, Apr 25, 2002.

  1. Aaron Cooke

    Aaron Cooke Second Unit

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    I am just making the jump from receiver (onkyo TX-SV828) to separates. I just purchased a B&K 7270 amp and am using my onkyo as a preamp for now. My question is which upgrade would make more of a noticeable improvement in my system...a Rotel RSP-1066 or a SVS 16-46Pci sub. I am do not currently have a sub, but i have Def Tech BP2002's for my mains with fairly good bass extention. My receiver does not have digital inputs so if i went with the rotel i could hook up my cd and dvd players digitally, as well as being able to use DTS (i currently only have Dolby Digital). I can only afford one (until next tax year's tax refund) and they will both cost about the same since i can sell off my receiver if i go with the new Rotel Pre/pro. Thanks for any opinions on the matter.

    Aaron
     
  2. Harold_C

    Harold_C Stunt Coordinator

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    A subwoofer is pretty much essential for Dolby Digital soundtracks.

    Likewise, having digital inputs from the DVD player is absolutely required because, without them, you will not be able to enjoy Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtracks -- unless you use the decoder in the DVD player and bring the signal into the multi-channel RCA inputs on your receiver.

    If you can get Dolby Digital 5.1 signals into your receiver and if you can live with that arrangement, then I would get the sub now and the RSP-1066 later -- maybe by then the RSP-1066 won't be backordered!

    If you can't get DD 5.1 signals now, then here's another option. Buy a sub and a $300 to $400 Pioneer or Yamaha receiver with pre-amp outputs. Use that to control your system (with all the goodies (digital inputs, DTS, etc.) until you can spring for the Rotel.

    PS: I'm thinking really hard about an RSP-1066 myself. It is a really sweet unit. Good sound. Great features with a nice implementation of all the surround options. Plus, the remote is killer.
     
  3. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member

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    Aaron - It's a tough call, since you should realize noticable improvement no matter which route you choose. In my opinion the SVS would have the most noticable overall impact. You should notice the biggest difference while watching movies. There's just no substitute for a dedicated sub for LFE reproduction on DD or DTS tracks. I think you will be *amazed* at what you've been missing.

    Does your Onkyo have a built-in crossover? If so and you divert low bass to the sub you should notice an improvement in the sound from your front soundstage as well. Since the amp won't be pushing the low frequencies to your mains it will have more headroom to devote to midrange and high frequency reproduction. If you use the sub for 2 channel listening as well as home theater it should greatly improve the sound you're getting from your Def Techs for both applications. Just my 2 cents. Good luck!
     
  4. SanfordL

    SanfordL Stunt Coordinator

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    Aaron, Doug is right on the money from what I have experienced too. Though I did have a sub of some sort or another, but nowhere near the quality of the SVS. I have always heard it is better to play a $300.00 receiver/amp/pre-amp through a $5000.00 set of speakers than the other way around. Great speakers (and subs) will make a marginal system sound good, while a great pre-amp/amp is just going to point out the issues you have with the lack of .1 particularly for HT. The SVS will do right by you. I read a while back that dedicating the SVS to the 60hz and on down helps the sub to be more musical (i.e. to not strain to reproduce the mid and lower midrange which my JBL's can handle,) and for me, it made all the difference in the world.

    By the way, how do you like those Def Techs? Speakers are next on my list of upgrades.
     
  5. Aaron Cooke

    Aaron Cooke Second Unit

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    I should elaborate a bit, I am currently getting full 5.1 doing DD decoding in my DVD player and running a 6RCA--> DB25 into my receiver & my Def Tech's have a built in powered sub so i run the LFE channel directly to that. Although I'm sure that is no comparison to having a dedicated sub.
    I've had my Def Tech 2002's for about 5 years and I think that in their price range ($2,000/pr) they can't be beat for HT. I bought them in college and didn't do a lot of careful evaluation but if I was looking for speakers now and was more concerned about music than HT, i think you might be able to find something better for the same price. Eventually i'm hoping to upgrade to B&W 802's or 803's but that is quite a ways down the road.
    It sounds like you guys are leaning heavily towards the SVS. I'm currently running analog from my CD player (a 6 disc onkyo carousel from about 4 years ago), any thoughts on how much differnce being able to use a digital connection would make?
    Also, I was not aware that the Rotel was on backorder...if i can't get one now that may make the decision for me. [​IMG]
    Thanks for the input guys.
    Aaron
     
  6. dpippel

    dpippel HTF Premium Member

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    I didn't realize your Def Techs have built in subs. Do you know the frequency rating on them? How low do they go? At any rate the SVS should still be a rather huge improvement. I went from a 100 watt 12" powered sub to the 25-31 PCi and the difference is like night and day.

    As for the digital connection on the CD player, all it does is bypass the built-in DACs in your player. Whether or not it's an improvement over the analog output will depend on the DACs in the pre/pro you buy. You'll have to A/B the two to see which you like better. I have a Sony XA1ES and the DACs in my Marantz AV9000 are *much* better, so I use the digital out.
     
  7. Aaron Cooke

    Aaron Cooke Second Unit

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    The Def Tech 2002's have built in 12" subs. Their website lists frequency as going down to 17Hz but i don't believe that is a very usuable figure...at least in comparison to what the SVS 16-46 would do at that range.
    It sounds like the difference between digital and analog CD connection would be fairly minimal at best...especially in comparison to adding a sub.
    Thanks for all your help guys, i'm leaning heavily toward getting myself a new sub at this point. Although i have one last potential obstacle to overcome first...i've got 15 amp circuits in my house and i'm a bit afraid my new 200x7 channel amp is gonna require too much power. If i have to have an electrician come install a dedicated 30 amp circuit i might have to delay my sub for a bit. [​IMG]
    Aaron
     
  8. Andrew_Ballew

    Andrew_Ballew Second Unit

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    I may be the lone voice here- but I say that you should upgrade your processing. The BP2002's are AWESOME speakers with great powered subs built in. IMO you do not need another standalone subwoofer. You should be getting very satisfactory bass from your 2002's. You are getting full range bass from both your left and right front channels, as well as your LFE channel from what amounts to having TWO powered subwoofers.

    yes- take Definitives ratings with a grain of salt, but that does not change the fact that the 2002's are outstanding speakers.

    FYI- here are Def Techs ratings on these speakers-

    The new BP2002TL is a more powerful refinement of the two-time Grand Prix Award-winning BP2002. The original BP2002 has been hailed as one of the greatest loudspeakers ever. Home Theater called its performance "staggering" and England's Gramophone, the world's top classical music magazine, honored it with their Editor's Choice Speaker-of-the-Year Award and their reviewer Alvin Gold wrote, "Their imaging is a dream. Musically, this is one of the most appealing and informative loudspeakers around." And now, with double the amp power, a new subwoofer driver (with longer throw, a larger voice coil and an even bigger magnet structure) plus dual D'Appolito arrays, the new BP2002TL, with all the features of its big brothers, is even better. Sound & Vision's Rich Warren raved that the BP2002TL "will...definitely thrill you," and that "James Taylor never sounded smoother and more vibrant than when the Definitive system reproduced his voice."

    BP2002TL Specifications: Dimensions: 7 1/4"W x 15 13/16"D x 45 7/8"H Response: 17 Hz-30 kHz. Efficiency: 92 dB. Drivers: 4-5.25" cast-basket, bass/midrange drivers, 2-1" pure aluminum dome tweeters in D'Appolito arrays, 12" sub w/250-watt RMS Infinite Power Source amp. Connections: tri-wirable with separate five-way gold binding posts and optional separate low level full range and LFE inputs. Rec. Amp.: 20-400 watts. Nominal Imp.: 4-8 ohms. Auto On/Off: Signal sensing. Finish: piano gloss black. Weight: 71 lbs. Retail: Black $1099 ea.

    Andrew B.
     

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