Which Receiver?: Yamaha RX-V2400 or Denon 3803 or H/K AVR630

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by MuneebM, Jan 20, 2004.

  1. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    I have the following 6.1 speaker set up (in the process of acquiring all these speakers):
    - Fronts: JBL S310II 10" floorstanding speakers
    - Center: JBL S-CenterII
    - Surround (x3): JBL S36II
    - HSU STF-2 10" down firing 200 watt subwoofer

    I am in the market for a receiver, mid-to-high end and I've pretty much narrowed down my list to the following models:
    - Yamaha RX-V2400 (or RX-V1400)
    - Denon 3803
    - Harman Kardon AVR630 (or AVR525)

    I know most people will say "audition every receiver and choose what sounds best to you", but unfortunately that is quite difficult to accomplish in Canada, much worse in Montreal. The issue is that in Montreal particularly, only certain stores carry certain brands; for example, if one store carries Denon receivers, it probably won't carry H/K or Yamaha, etc. which makes it very difficult to compare receivers back-to-back.

    I am waiting until I have all my speakers set up and installed and then I will try to go out and purchase each of the receivers on my list and try it out with my speakers to see what sounds best, and return whatever I don't think sounds good, but before I do that I'd like to get as much input about the various contenders as possible, so all the help is much appreciated.

    By the way, I think the YPAO feature on the Yamaha receiver(s) may be a selling point for me, so is it really worth it?
     
  2. Dom P

    Dom P Stunt Coordinator

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    Refurbished 525 from harmans ebay store is quite the bargain. Still comes with the 2 year warranty. That's what I got just recently. Unfortunately I won't have speakers for another 2 months so it's going to sit and collect dust till then. I had to buy one though cause I don't know how many there are left and didn't want to miss out on the great deal. Got one for $507 shipped.
     
  3. Scott Tucker

    Scott Tucker Stunt Coordinator

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    Go with the Yamaha. The YPAO works great. The only thing i don't like about my Yamaha is the remote is not backlit like the Denon is. Not a big deal if you are using a different remote however.

    Scott
     
  4. Steve Winkler

    Steve Winkler Stunt Coordinator

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    MuneebM, I wouldn't buy the 2400 for it's YPAO feature but it's a very nice unit. The component video upcoversion and On screen display work wonderfully. 7.1, THX if that's important to you, adjustable crossover, Pro Logic IIx. Decent price in Canada too, about $1100CAD. I had one but had to return it due largely to the problem it had handling my DTH satellite's Dolby Digital audio ( StarChoice ). It did some funky thing with the dialog norm and my voulme levels were all over the map when switching between channels.

    The YPAO IMO was good at adjusting speaker levels and diagnosing if you had phase issues. Beyond that, unless you have many different types of speakers ( I see you don't, all JBL, nice choice), I found the eq settings to be terrible and it set my crossover ridiculously high. The sound with those settings was again IMO terrible. With the YPAO EQ settings off the sound was very good, crisp, clear, detailed. Just my two cents.

    I would try the HK630 for sure, same company as JBL, I would think a good match. In case you're wondering, I went with a Yamaha RX-V3300 and am quite happy with it's performance so far.

    Cheers,

    Steve
     
  5. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Thanks for the replies guys.

    Steve, thanks for your insight on the 2400 and the YPAO feature. Where did you manage to find the unit for 1100 CDN? I'd most likely buy it if I found it at that price.

    Also, what is the difference between the 1400 and the 2400? Seems to me like the 2400 only has 10 watts/channel more power and I don't think that'll make such a noticeable difference in sound, right?
     
  6. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Second Unit

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    the 2400 has an rs232 port on the back, video out for zone2 and dual IR triggers as apposed to 1.

    the 2400 has a tad more power..wich isnt enough to make a diff.

    One feature i liked the most @ the 2400 over the 1400...was you could change the input to zone2 from the reciever (front pannel) or remote...1400 only remote. Since i'm using my Zone 2 for patio speakers...makes it easier to switch!

    other then that..they are pretty much identical..
     
  7. Marty M

    Marty M Cinematographer

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    I recently purchased the Yamaha 2400. The main reason for choosing the Yamaha 2400 is that I have been a long time Yamaha user and like the sound of their receivers.
     
  8. Steve Winkler

    Steve Winkler Stunt Coordinator

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    I purchased mine at a Local chain store in Calgary called SoundsAround. I think they are only in Alberta but could be in other parts of Western Canada. The sale price was roughly $1133, I paid $1200 but that is including GST,and 5yr. ext warranty.

    Happy shopping,

    Steve
     
  9. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    I recently received my front speakers: JBL S310II floorstanding beasts! I connected them to my current receiver, a Kenwood VR-707 that was part of my HTiB and they sound incredible in stereo mode, even with my subs turned off. The receiver is 100 watts X 6 claimed power, but when I run the JBL S310IIs in surround mode (along with my current Kenwood HTiB surrounds and center) I can really tell that they are not getting enough power from the receiver. They definitely sound much fuller than my HTiB fronts, and definitely go lower in surround mode, but I still feel like they ought to be giving me more.

    So, given that experience, I am very concerned about power when selecting a receiver. Many people have recommended the Yamaha, which I am very keen on, but after reading another thread on this forum about the power going as low as 35 watts/channel in 7.1, I'm starting to get worried. Others have told me to stay away from the Yamaha and go for the Denon 3803: how does that receiver drop in 6.1/7.1? I am now really considering the 90 watts/channel H/K AVR630, since it seems H/K is honest and that receiver will most likely remain at 90 watts/channel even in surround modes. My fronts can handle up to 200 watts, and the other speakers in my set up can handle up to 150 watts.

    Anybody have any more insight about power issues of the 3 receivers I have narrowed my selection down to?

    A salesman at a local B&M recommended I get the Pioneer Elite VSX-53TX. Any good?
     
  10. Tom_Mack

    Tom_Mack Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the Yamaha 2400 -

    I have auditioned the Denon 3802 and HK 525. The HK and Denon sounded very good for music, but I just wasn't thrilled with the "warm" sound for movies. I have Paradigm monitor series speakers (which many consider bright) and there was something missing on the upper end that just made the sound "dull" to me. Details just didn't stand out as much and voices sounded unnatural to me. I always felt that it needed to be turned up louder no matter how loud it was already. Both had about the same sound quality, but the HK drove me nuts with the 2 second delay on DVDs every time the format was switched. This isn't a big deal to some, but it drove me nuts! (same reason I returned a Marantz 8200 a couple years ago.)

    Now, I have the Yamaha 2400 and I am happy with it, but it does have its "issues" too. The YPAO worked wonders for cleaning up the muddy sound from my bass, but it added an odd increase in the midrange that made the sound a little harsh. I wish it would just remove the peaks from the room and not try to fix the dips. You will have to try it on your room and see how you feel about it! The Yamaha sound is neutral (not too bright/not warm), it makes well recorded soundtracks sound great, but it will also expose the weakness of soundtracks and speakers that the warmer receivers may cover up. If you like to listen to movies/music at a pleasantly loud volume (10-15db under reference) the Yamaha can be great. If you listen to all movies at reference level (very, very loud!) you may want one of the warmer receivers that will tone down the upper frequencies some. In reference to the power of the yamaha amps, I played a few music DVDs with heavy action in all channels at quite high levels, so I have my doubts on the 35w review. It seems to have plenty of power.

    In conclusion, if you are looking for a warmer, easy to listen to receiver, I would go with the Denon. If you want a more neutral receiver, better for movies still good with music, go with the yamaha.
     
  11. Marty M

    Marty M Cinematographer

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    I had a similar problem. The PEQ was putting every speaker in the negative to the point there was no midrange or bass, only a high treble. Once I set it to SEQ, it sounded better. I may try the auto set up once more. If it doesn't work, at least I know where to set things manually.
     
  12. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Thank you very much for that comparison Tom, I think you may have convinced me:
    1) I will be using the receiver for 95% movies, 5% music.
    2) I am a very big fan of brighter-to-neutral sound, rather than neutral-to-dull sound.
    3) When I heard my friend's H/K AVR230 matched with JBL Studio Series speakers I found the sound to be slightly muffled, a little too neutral for my tastes.

    If the Denon 3803 and H/K AVR630 are too "warm", as is the H/K AVR230, then I will most likely go with the RX-V2400, especially since you are saying the lack of power is not a concern.

    Thanks!
     
  13. Michael Brand

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    MuneebM,

    Nice taste in speakers, we think alike! I just upgraded my older JBL Northridge 26 speakers to JBL S38II's at front and surround, JBL S-Center II, and am buying a pair of S36II's for the rear surrounds. They sound great! One note for you on your rear surrounds, I think I noticed in one of your earlier posts that you were buying 3 S36's, which implies you are only going to use one speaker for the rear surrounds. If you get a 7.1 receiver you will want two rear surrounds, as the back surround channels are not mono in 7.1.

    I too am looking at upgrading my receiver, and am probably going for the RXV-2400. I have done tons of research (ask my wife!) and keep coming back to the Yamaha. My current receiver is a Yamaha 5250, which I have really liked and have had zero problems with, but I just gotta' have 7.1 and SACD/DVD-A capabilities. Good luck in your quest for audio nirvana!
     
  14. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Michael, I agree with you, these JBL Studio Series kick ass!

    As for using a 7.1 receiver with only a 6.1 speaker setup: in 7.1, the rear surrounds are in fact mono, no difference in sound between the 2. The only difference, and correct me if I'm wrong, is with Logic-7. So, if I connect my rear surround to the "single" rear surround output on the back of the 2400, it should be fine. Not to mention, I don't have the option of 2 speakers in the back because of my window [​IMG]
     
  15. Evan M.

    Evan M. Supporting Actor

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    Do not really pay much attentiont to the 35 watt with all channels driven. Even if it is true.....who really cares? You will (almost) never have all channels driven at the same time. The only time it will happen is during a big explosion during an action scene.....and how long does that last?......2 seconds maybe? People get all bent out of shape and call Yamaha liars for "inflating" there rating. Technicaly they do not if you look at what is written in any of the Yamaha literature. I bought my rx-v2200 over the Denon 3802. When compareing the two the Yamaha sounded like it had soooo much more volume to go while the Denon just seemed to amplify the midrange and lost all detail. I am not saying denon is bad. I love Denon and would buy one of there receivers in a heartbeat........if it weren't for Yamaha [​IMG].
     
  16. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Ya, I'm not sure how believable that test was that showed 35 watts, but I was still a little concerned. The general concensus on this forum seems to be that the RX-V1400/RX-V2400 have plenty of power, and that's very comforting. I'll most likely end up with the Yamaha considering the bright vs. warm sound issue.
     
  17. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    I just discovered via another thread and by reading the Yamaha RX-V2400 and Harman Kardon AVR630 owner's manuals that the Yammie does not allow for individual crossover settings for each individual speaker, while the H/K does! This is an important feature for me as I'd like to run my front towers at 40 Hz, center at 80 Hz, and surrounds at 60 Hz.

    Man, this decision gets harder and harder each and every day! The Yammie has some nice features the H/K doesn't, the H/K more likely has more power and offers the individual crossover settings. Not to mention the H/K probably is too warm sounding for my tastes while the Yammie is probably just the right brightness for what I like (but I guess I'll never know until I hear each with my speakers).

    Any input about the Denon?
     
  18. Jesse Sharrow

    Jesse Sharrow Supporting Actor

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    I am in the same boat. I love my rxv-440. The imaging and sound are great, but it doesnt have enough power. So im looking at the RXV-1400/2400 and the HK AVR-430/630. I think I need to go listen to the HK. Because I may love the warm sound, but I may not. My system I have now doesnt seem very "bright" but I dont know. I will decide by saturday. :-D
     
  19. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Jesse, I won't be buying a receiver until a week or so, so please post what receiver you decide to buy and why, it would be very helpful!
     
  20. Shiu

    Shiu Second Unit

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    MuneebM,

    Seem like you may like the Sony DA4,5, or 7ES. They have excellent individual channel bass control. S&V did not test the 4ES for 5 channel output but follow this link you will see that even the lesser DB790 tested quite well for 5 channel output, beating out the Denon 1804, and Onkyo 501. People seem to think Sony is bright sounding but you seem to prefer bright to warm anyway.

    http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-...?reviewid=3695]http://www.homecinemachoice.com/fram...iewid=3695[/url]

    The review is a downloadable PDF file.
     

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