Which receiver? Denon, onkyo, or HK? (1 Viewer)

[Babek]

I ought to mension that the new HK's are hardly better parts wise than the new onkyo. They also have lower quality parts if you don't know. Most new receivers do.
Nevertheless, I doubt I'd see any problems with any three of those recievers.

I have narrowed my results to either the Onkyo or the denon. Any final suggestions?

And thank you, by the way, for that reply about the new lower quality parts on the onkyos. That was a good read.

 

[Chris Sherman]

Babek,
Sadly, I agree most manufacturers are cutting corners to meet price points . I still say Onkyo is the worst offender in this area out of the three you mentioned. In the real world watching dvd's you probably won't notice the drop in their power supply, as you seldom would be driving all channels simaltaneously. My final suggestion since you've narrowed it to the two is buy the Denon. I wish you could have compared the Onkyo SR to my HK in my house with my Sound Dynamics speakers , really a night and day difference, you would hear it with ease. Good luck in your quest and make sure whomevever you buy from has a good return policy.

 

[DonJ]

I highly disagree with Babek.

ought to mention that the new HK's are hardly better parts wise than the new onkyo.

Here's a link and you can compare. The HK is much more organized. You can see they have separated each section of the receiver with the heat-sinks to keep interference to a minimum. But I don't like the way they routed the wires across the chassis with zip ties.
When you look at the Onkyo it looks like a mess with everything clumped in pile also you can see that the electronics aren't as good as the HK's even if you don't know electronics.
SMR
I'm not downing anyones receiver but I was quiet surprised myself.

 

[EricM]

Chris-
Sounds like you bought and tried the Onkyo SR500. I read several posts about its lack of LFE in 'mode 3'. That is disappointing. I believe I read that Onkyo is aware of this bug and they are swapping out recievers. (Please dont hold me to that, that could very well be on a case by case basis.)
I do believe that at the Onkyo's price point (which to me is middle to low) there has to be some sacrifice between features and 'build quality'. I think its fair to say most receivers in this class make similar sacrifices. For example, you opted for the HK 225 because you "didn't need the extra amplifier channels or the component video switching." Also, the HK225 doesnt have Dolby Digital EX, DTS ES or DTS Neo:6. You sacrificed features for 'build quality'. Nothing wrong with that, its just an option you chose. Another receiver making the rounds is the Pioneer 811S. While it is cheaper, it is my opinion that its build quality is markedly lower than the Onkyo's yet it has very similar features. An option for people who prefer features and price vs build quality.
I also read posts concerning the Onkyo's power output. They say that when running all six speakers, the output is ~34 watts. Well I prefer real-world results. I dont sit around and watch movies with a wattage meter attached. All I know is I get plenty of volume from my HT set up. For my specific HT environment, there is more than enough power for me.
Having said all this, I am certainly not bashing HK. I think they make quality receivers. I heard a friends HK once and I think , musically, they put out excellent sound. I just hoped to illustrate that Onkyo isn't bad, just different.
If Costco had been selling the HK325 for 499 when I was looking I certainly would have checked into that. That seems like an excellent receiver for an incredible price.

A question:
What, if any, is the relationship between unit weight and quality?

Can a lower weighted unit be contributed to advances in technology? I mean the first computer weighed many tons and the newer faster ones weigh pounds. I am just curious, I dont know the answer...

(Sorry, not trying to turn this thread into a conversation between me and Chris. I am just responding.)

 

[EricM]

When you look at the Onkyo it looks like a mess with everything clumped in pile also you can see that the electronics aren't as good as the HK's even if you don't know electronics.

Eric: Ah yes, its quite obvious to me too that these electronics are inferior. Just look at this layout, its horrible! (I am not an electrician nor do I know electronics, I just slept at a Holiday Inn last night. )

 

[Bill Griffith]

That was good
If you looking for the 6.1 outputs and you don't care about zones than go for the Denon or the HK. The HK you can also set up for 7.1, since you don't need another speaker zone, you can use the rear surround outputs.
If you got the HK you would be happy.

 

[Ammon]

Babek-

Out of the two you have narrowed down to, the Denon or the Onkyo, theres a few thigns that should finalize your choice.

What speakers are you using? What is your primary use on this receiver going to be? If you are going with the Onkyo, you will want a warmer sounding speaker as the Onkyo's tend to be more on the bright end. IMO I think Onkyo's are better for music. The Denon has a warmer sound and is better for movies. I am personally not a big fan of Onkyo due to their lousy customer support. However, I won't get into details on that. Secondly, everytime I listen to the Onkyo's the high's seem to be cranked to their peak and almost makes my ears bleed at loud volumes. others probably have different views, but I would recommend the Denon over the Onkyo.

 

[Jason GT]

What, if any, is the relationship between unit weight and quality?

"There's no replacement for displacement"

I can only give a high-level overview on this, maybe the amp experts can give you more detail. Electronic amps will always have certain parts that can be technologified such as ICs and such, but there are fundamental parts such as transformers and capacitors, even heat sinks and such which cannot be reduced in size without reducing amp capacity.

By no means should it be considered an absolute relationship, but it's one of the sorts of things you can generalize on. Also, take a look at a line of receivers -- for instance go up the HK or Denon line. As you get higher up you get substantial weight increases. Stuff like circuit boards, extra connectors and such don't add *that* much weight.

Extra amp capacity usually does.

 

[Chris Sherman]

Eric,
No apology necessary at all. To each his own. I'm only giving an opinion, and you know what they say about opinions . You are correct the model I bought was the SR500, but I did also audition the 600 and found the HK225 was the right choice for me. My wife won't let me hang anymore surround speakers on my rear walls:b The great thing about this forum is you can have civil discussions with the other members even if you dissagree on something.To Onkyo's credit they took the receiver back for full credit with no hassle at all.
Chris

 

[BrianAe]

Damn, my post got deleted when the site went down ...
Anyway, I respectfully disagree with any who say that there is a significant difference between the three models in build quality or sound quality. I'd also like to restate that the rumors that the Onkyo is underpowered are false. Just read any professional review including the one at www.hometheaterforum.com
I think choosing the Denon vrs the Onkyo comes down to features. The Onkyo has easier setup, better video switching, and a far better remote. The Denon has an extra rear optical input (since Onkyo put one on the front) and better dual room a/b support.
Myself, I chose the Onkyo because of the remote and a better price that I could get with my speaker package from Aperion Audio.

 

[Angelo.M]

I respectfully disagree with any who say that there is a significant difference between the three models in build quality or sound quality.

You're entitled to disagree, of course.

And I disagree with you, and I do believe that, for example, the H/K 225 is built/engineered better than the Onkyo SR600. However, I'll take a slightly different approach than many on this issue, and agree that the difference in build quality doesn't automatically translate into a substantial difference in sound quality for every user in every acoustic environment. Given decent speakers and proper room treatment, you can make either receiver sound pretty darn good.

To my ears, there's enough of a difference between the H/K 'sound' and that of Onkyo and Denon to lead me to choose it every time, at least among the H/K receivers that I've owned or tried. And, of course, this is always changing (but not always for the better: my brother's 10-year old Onkyo receiver sounds better than most anything I've heard recently from any maker, and is leagues better than the Onkyo SR600 from what we could tell in a side-by-side comparison).

Just some thoughts.

 

[BrianAe]

Ooops. I meant review at www.cheaphometheater.com

 

[DonJ]

EricM Did you even look at the site and go through the pics? No it's also easy to tell that the HK doesn't have the best build either but it is better than the Onkyo. I found the site to be very informative to see the difference between each brand. Also I was an F-15 Crew Chief in the U.S. Air Force so I had to know avionics, weapons, hydraulics, and motors so I do know something about electronics.

 

[Jose G]

And he can kill you
Just had to say that, Don
Brian, in you review it says: "While we don't have the equipment that will allow us to test the actual output of these receivers, we can say that we are pleased with the output of both the Onkyo 595 and SR600."
So how do you compare them? By ear? Well then it's all very subjective right? That's right for all of this anyway, isn't it? So much depends on the HT room, the speakers, the personal preferences of bright or warm or whatever sound- even the hearing abilities of the individual. So we all have to take all of these things into consideration. I respect your review by the way- and most of the stuff on the CHT. I'm really just making a point about our individual situations when it comes down to what we hear for ourselves.
By the way, why doesn't CHT have any reviews on the HK units? I've aways wanted to ask that. Also, there is a lot of talk on this new budget sub that may outgun the Sony sub you guys at CHT have reviewed. Any chance you might take a listen to this DLS 10 from parts express- only 99 bucks. Yes, I own this sub and would love to hear what CHT thinks, as many other HTF members would.

 

[EricM]

Chris -
Sounds like you and I had the same WAF issues. My rear speakers were causing a problem. I had to go with white/outdoor speakers because they were less obtrusive. But they look good on the wall and my wife digs the HT.

DonJ -
Yes I did glance at the site. I saw both the Onkyo and the HK pics. The only difference I saw was the HK separating sections of electronics with metal bars. While the HK appears to designate different sections, that doesnt necessarily mean its better electronically, at least to me. Maybe Onkyo uses better parts, maybe the HK uses better parts, I have no clue. I alluded to the fact that I am clueless when it comes to electronics. If you are telling me, with your expertise, that by merely looking at the pics you can determine which is better then I can go along with that.

I think the bottom line here is that selecting from three comparable receivers (as I believe these to be) is a purely subjective decision.

 

[DonJ]

Jose G
I will drop bombs on your homes all that do not agree with me LOL.

EricM You are completey right comparing receivers is completely subjective it's all what sounds good to you.