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Which file system for XP (1 Viewer)

Ken.Nischan

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BTW, don't forget that the cluster size is not a static figure. When you format your NTFS volume you can set the cluster size, relegating the that problem a non-issue. I do agree with you, I would go with a higher cluster size on a gaming machine. I also agree that my Windows 98 machine tends to have better performance - but not because it's FAT simply because it's not a complicated OS like 2k & XP. It just seems to have less overhead to tie up other more crucial factors (CPU and memory utilization).
 

Ammon

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Naturally Microsoft will backup NTFS at all costs. Afterall, they started it. Yet even in current exams and text, NTFS is still not recommended on home PC's.

The amount of space wasted is not where I was going with the cluster size. It was the speed at which files can be accessed because of it.

When NTFS came out, there were very few programs that could run on it. Now that it has been out for quite some time there has been more support for it. However, many software companies are still out creating patches for users running on NTFS file systems. Winamp being one of these.

True there is no direct talking to the file system, but when it comes to game play, there is only one thing on the gamers mind. Speed.

TechTv does have that report of NTFS vs. FAT, however, when they buillt their UGM (Ultimate Gaming Machine) they still chose FAT32 over NTFS.

There is no doubt in my mind that Microsoft will slowly move to an NTFS only solution.

NTFS is a great file system when working in the enviornment it was built to work with. NTFS is still geared toward server use and is very much the same that it was with Windows NT. But until I see that NTFS works seamlessly with all products out for Windows, I will stick with FAT32.
 

Ammon

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I guess it just comes down to what seems to work the best for one person, they are going to stick with it. I have been happy with FAT32 and have never been impressed with NTFS since it first came out.
 

Rob Gillespie

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Yet even in current exams and text, NTFS is still not recommended on home PC's.
Perhaps so, but every machine I've seen which comes with XP pre-installed has used NTFS. It is the de-facto standard file system for NT/2000/XP based machines. You can't even format a FAT32 partition in 2000 or XP that is larger than 32gb. That's a limitation MS built into the OS to turn people towards NTFS.
 

Ammon

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I agree that it doesnt not apply to me. What I am trying to point out is that the security features in NTFS were in no way meant for home use. How many home PC's out there that have come from Dell, HP or other manufacturers do you see adjusted so everyone in the family has file and folder security rights?

The reason NTFS is being pre-installed is due to contracts between Microsoft and the computer manufacturer. None of the installs are individually completed. They have utilities that run the entire setup that leaves no customization to the technicians.

Like I stated earlier, Microsoft is definately pushing toward everything being NTFS. I have no problem with that. However, until it is perfected, I prefer FAT32.
 

Ken.Nischan

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How many home PC's out there that have come from Dell, HP or other manufacturers do you see adjusted so everyone in the family has file and folder security rights?
That's done automatically.. when a user is created and logs on for the first time, the profile is created and the profile rights are configured where only that user and the administrator can get to the documents within. Granted, most home PCs I see with XP/2k simply have a generic admin user that logs on automatically so it voids that benefit.
However as you said, it does ultimately boil down to whatever the person wants.. I doubt any amount of debating will change either person's view :)
 

Danny R

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If you have any doubt, go with FAT32. Its not as if the choice is irrevokable. XP does have a tool that lets you convert to NTFS if you want. I had no problems converting my drive.

If you are planning on dealing with very large files, such as when making DVD disk images, you definately want NTFS. FAT32 can't create a file larger than 4GB. I've got a handful of DVD images of 7 or so GB on my server.
 

Francois Caron

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Kudos on the video capture angle. I sometimes use my computer as an improvised PVR (Video TAPE?!? Bleah! :D ) and the files can easily grow beyond 4 GB even with the video compression enabled (I use XVID at 3Mbps).
 

Craig LeBlanc

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I'm still trying to figure out the DirectX not being supported under NTFS bit from one of the earlier posts ;)
The only reason I can think of for not using NTFS on a WindowsXP machine is for being able to use the partition under multiple operating systems. I guess it all depends on how you are going to want to use your system.
Fat32 is a little bit faster (no security layer), but it doesn't have permissions...and doesn't support > 4GB files.
 

Ammon

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I take back what I said about DirectX under NTFS. I actually confused myself and was talking about Windows NT.

And depending on what you are using your computer for, you may need one or other. There are definate benefits to NTFS and benefits to FAT32. There are many people who have successfully ran an NTFS partition with no problems, but there are also a many who have repeated problems. I am taking the view as the less programatic for the average user. I agree NTFS has come a long way since it's initial release and that more and more programs are working more stable on it. My point is that there is still things that need to be improved before complete migration to the NTFS file system.
 

John_Berger

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All right, I'm really tired of the disinformation that's being put forth on this thread. (Sheesh! I go away for six weeks and all hell breaks loose. :) )
NTFS is the better file system for hard drives over 2 GB because its smaller cluster size means that more disk space is actually used for data instead of empty space due to unused larger cluster sizes. It is also faster and more efficient on larger hard drives than FAT32 is. This is not theory or conjecture; there are numerous resources on the Internet that show NTFS as being much more efficient than FAT32.
NTFS is completely compatible with practically every program out there when it comes to file naming and compatibility. How do I know? I have been using Windows 2000 and NTFS on three of my PCs (one of which is my main gaming PC) for over two years and I have never had any kind of file convention incompatibility. Even with some old DOS applications that I've thrown onto the system, I've never had compatibility issues.
There is NOTHING problematic about NTFS for the average home user unless for whatever reason data needs to be recovered from an NTFS-formatted hard drive. In that case, NT, 2000 or XP will be necessary to get that data unless the user decides to use something like Partition Magic.
NTFS is far, FAR more tolerant of problems like a sudden power loss than FAT32 is. If there is any sign of corruption on a FAT32 system, the system has to go through the whole disk checking routine before it goes into Windows. NTFS is so tolerant of problems that only with major file system corruption does Windows need to check the file system upon booting.
NTFS allows access to file sizes greater than 4 GB. That might seem to be excessive, but if Brad is going to use his system for any kind of video capturing and editing, being restricted to a 4 GB file is an incredibly annoying and frustrating restriction.
And when it comes to security, if you have an Internet connection directly to your PC, only a fool would not want the extra security that NTFS can provide over FAT32.
Your statements that NTFS needs to be "improved" and that NTFS is not compatible with all applications are ridiculous. I use NTFS exclusively every day on three PCs, including my wife's XP PC, and I have been for over two years.
The only place where FAT32 needs to be used is in a multi-boot environment where multiple operating systems need access to a partition. That's it. Otherwise, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to suggest FAT32 over NTFS.
 

Ammon

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I too have used NTFS since it first came out. First of all, I have received my MCSE certification as well as my A+. I have also been installing and configuring machines long before Win 3.0. I have been fixing computers from hardware to software since Windows 3.0 up to Windows XP. The company I work at currently is in the software business. Some of our head developers were the main developers at PowerQuest who developed Partition Magic. Even they will confirm that as it currently stands, NTFS is not the best choice for regular PC use. I'm sure there are a wide variety of people who have run NTFS without any problems. But just because you personally have not experienced any problems with NTFS, doesnt mean there arent any problems with it. After working on countless number of machines, I have seen nothing but problems with NTFS.

But as I said before, it's up the user to decide what he wants. Obviously if you are using your PC as a Digital Video Recorder, and your files will be larger than 4gb, then yes, NTFS would be the way to go.

As far as gaming goes, FAT32 is still proven to be the faster file system. Ask any hardcore gamers what file system is preffered.

Thi thread was started by someone wondering what to partition their HDD with. And IMO, I would stick with FAT32.
 

Ammon

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By the way, I think this may be the longest thread I have seen in this forum!
 

John_Berger

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Ask any hardcore gamers what file system is preffered.
This is like saying "Ask any Mac user which Windows version is preferred." You cannot equate all gamers with having fundamental understandings of file system layouts and functionality. Gamers use their systems for gaming, not tweaking. You cannot possibly prove to me that gamers have gone through all of the tests to actually install their game systems on FAT32 and equivalent NTFS layouts and then run tests on how well their games run. They most likely prefer the file system that just so happened to come on their system when they bought it.

Yes, you're right that it's up to what the user prefers. That's always the case. But the person at least deserves accurate information. And there is no reason that when given the pros and cons (and real performance results) to each file system that anyone with a hard drive greater than 2 GB would want FAT32 over NTFS except for cross-operating-system compatibility.
 

John_Berger

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By the way, I think this may be the longest thread I have seen in this forum!
Heh. You missed the one where one guy and I went back and forth on security for computers that are connected to the Internet. I think it reached four pages or something like that.
 

Ammon

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Since FAT32 is supposedly proven to be faster (which goes against just about all of the comparisons that I've seen), then by all means plese provide these sources.
My claim about NTFS being faster is only being applied to the gaming world. Although I hate to admit it, but I do go to gaming parties. Every person that has the serious gaming machine is running FAT32. When accessing large contiguous files, FAT32 is faster due to the cluster size. But someone has also stated that the cluster size can be adjusted. And yes, hardcore gamers go through every tweak possible to get the best performance. I have tested both file systems with games, and the difference was very noticeable. You'd be surprised at to what lengths people go to for their gaming systems.

I'll tell you what. I'll go and re-format my PC this weekend and re-install WinXP with NTFS. I'll run some good benchmarking and we'll see what happens. Since I haven't used NTFS since Windows 2000, perhaps the tests may prove me wrong.
 

Ammon

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Heh. You missed the one where one guy and I went back and forth on security for computers that are connected to the Internet. I think it reached four pages or something like that.
Crap. We've got a long ways to go! What else can we talk about?
 

Rob Gillespie

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Ammon - just a thought. Load up a partition with 30gb worth of MP3s on NTFS and repeat with the same in FAT32. Now start moving files around etc and see the difference. NTFS (especially with the indexing service) is much better.

I don't doubt FAT has the edge for constant throughput, but that doesn't reflect everyday use.
 

Ammon

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Rob, I'll give that a try. I'm open to trying it out. I use my Home PC mainly for mp3's and gaming so this should be a good test.
 

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