Which equalizer to tame my SVS induced room peaks?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by jeff peterson, Oct 23, 2001.

  1. jeff peterson

    jeff peterson Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 1998
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I hear about the Rane, Symetrix, ART, BFD...I know I can get the Symetrix and ART from Ron & Tom at SVS. I also know that the BFD is hard to find. What about where to find the Rane (and which model)?
    Is the only difference between a parametric equalizer and a graphic equalizer that you can choose the frequencies to adjust on a parametric; while on a graphic, they're fixed; ie, 20, 40, 60, etc.
     
  2. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Jeff: The Symetrix 551E and the Rane PE-17 are virtually identical with regard to performance, yet the Rane costs about $100 more. Then again, if you ever sell your EQ, the Rane will sell for about $120 more than the Symetrix.
    ------------------
    Take Care,
    merc
    ----------------
    [​IMG]
    God Bless America!!!
     
  3. Kerry Hackney

    Kerry Hackney Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2000
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jeff,
    You can find the Behringer at www.guitarcenter.com I think they are $159
    edit: I checked and you're correct that they are out of stock currently. Their site says due 2/2002 ?????
    [Edited last by Kerry Hackney on October 23, 2001 at 08:00 AM]
     
  4. Guy Kuo

    Guy Kuo Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 1999
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jeff, definitely choose a parametric EQ for this purpose. A parametric not only lets you center the filtering exactly on the peaks, but also lets you adjust the width of the filter to fit the room peaks. A fixed band EQ won't let you get things done as accurately. Sure you'll kill the peaks, but you'll also kill off more of the nearby frequencies that you want to keep.
    ------------------
    Guy Kuo
    www.ovationsw.com
    Ovation Software, the Home of AVIA DVD
     
  5. Deane Johnson

    Deane Johnson Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 1999
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have experience with the BFD and a little with the ART. The BFD has many more adjustment possibilities than the ART, but the ART is easier to use, due to it's fewer adjustments.
    The BFD, IMO, is an incredible value for what it does. I really like the ability to move the filter center frequencies up and down one Hertz at a time. You can super fine tune it.
    If you should happen to go with a BFD, be sure to check back in here as there are a couple of minor misprints in the instruction book you need to know about.
    I have no experience with the Symetrix or the Rane, though I know Symetrix makes good equipment.
    Deane
     
  6. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

    Joined:
    May 22, 1999
    Messages:
    5,182
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have a similar question. With intense scenes, my SVS creates a "room throb" that is quite un-pleasant so I have decided on getting something like the BFD.
    Once I get it, how do I know where my peaks are? I have been looking for a bass-test cd so I can use my SPL meter to roughly figure out where the big peaks are. Is this good enough?
     
  7. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 1998
    Messages:
    2,943
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    SpectraPlus (not sure the exact URL) has a fully functioning demo that will allow you to measure the room response. I am sure a google search will find it.
    I would say though, that if you have a really huge peak, you may be able to cure it with slight repositioning of the sub and/or the listening position (if that is an option). If the chair is close to a wall or a corner, you could well be seeing a peak that may be really tough to kill.
    Regards,
    Brian
     
  8. Ray R

    Ray R Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Bob,
    If you have a CD burner, you could download a test tone generator. A link to free test tone software has been posted here before. This software lets you pick the type of noise, frequency and length of time and then creates a wav file.
    I also have the BFD and must say that it is very flexable, but not the easiest piece of equipment to use.
    ------------------
    HT pictures
     
  9. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 1999
    Messages:
    6,208
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Katy, TX
    Real Name:
    Wayne
    Bob,
    I think it’s best to just put the sub where it delivers maximum output and extension, i.e., a corner, and use an equalizer to tame the inevitable peak or two. After equalization you will have the best of everything—the highest output, the lowest extension, and the smoothest response.
    A test disc and a SPL meter will give excellent results with a minimum cash outlay. Make sure you get a test source with at least 1/6 octave filtered test tones (pink noise or sine wave). When you take a SPL reading at each frequency you will be able to see exactly what frequency your peak is centered at, how severe it is, and how wide an area is affected. Then you can easily set up the BFD for the correct frequency and bandwidth to eliminate the problem(s).
    It would be very unlikely that you have a peak so severe that the BFD can’t deal with it. I recently helped with a fellow who had a 15dB peak in his system, and his BFD easily eliminated it.
    Regards,
    Wayne A. Pflughaupt
    ------------------
    My Equipment List
     
  10. Kevin Golding

    Kevin Golding Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2001
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Does anyone know of a place that has the BFD in stock? I went to our local Guitar Center and a couple other music shops in the area. I found one place on-line (can't remember where), but they wanted $220 [​IMG]
     
  11. Brian Corr

    Brian Corr Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 10, 1999
    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Stupid question but how big a difference/improvement does an EQ make?
    I haven't written down the nulls and peaks but I know I have some 15 dB peaks.
    Is it a drastic improvement or a minor one?
    Also, is BFD behringer feedback destroyer?
     
  12. Erich S

    Erich S Agent

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2001
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Any recommendations for obtaining a test CD with 1/6 octave tones? I do not have a CD burner.
     
  13. Deane Johnson

    Deane Johnson Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 1999
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Brian:
    I had a 16db spike at 42 Hz in my system. Taming it made a hugh difference. With spikes, you tend to have to set the level of your sub lower overall to accomodate them. Doing that causes other sub frequencies to be much lower than you want them.
    Leveling the system out a little allows the overall sub level to be higher. With mine, instead of getting a thud sound when something hit the spike freqeuncy, I get a much more solid bass sound. Sort of instead of a thud, it sounds like the corner of the house falling off.
    BFD does stand for Beringher Feedback Destroyer.
    Deane
     
  14. jeff peterson

    jeff peterson Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 1998
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Does anyone have any experience/comments on this Behringer parametric equalizer, PEQ-2200 Parametric EQ? Markertek has it for less than $200.
    Thanks,
    Jeff
     
  15. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    550
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  16. Ken Woodrow

    Ken Woodrow Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2001
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  17. Guy Kuo

    Guy Kuo Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 1999
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I use the ETF5 software and calibrated microphone package. It makes very quick work of dialing in the parametric. You hook up the computer to the system and place the mic at your listening position. Load the mic calibration file, then start measuring. The program outputs test signals and the mic gathers the actual room/speaker results.
    I just put it on repeated low freq response test and watch the freq response curve on screen. Dial in a super sharp and deep notch on the parametric's 1st band and see a steep valley appear on screen. Tune the center frequency so the valley is centered on the lowest freq problem peak. Then adjust width and dept of the cut to minimize the peak. It's best not to go too wide, but it's very easy to see when you've gone too far. Repeat on the next higher freq peak. Doing it in this order stacks the parametric EQ's filters in the correct order.
    The ETF5 software (www.etfacoustics.com) makes it ridiciulously simple because it plots the freq response every 2 or 3 seconds - tons more efficient than manually plotting. It's worth the money for the convenience and accuracy particularly when you consider how much we spend on the actual speakers, amps, and processors. It's insane not to have a tool that lets you systematically examine the in-room behaviour and let you make informed decisions about how to fix things.
    The ETF5 not only gathers frequency response curves, but you get a an entire range of different analyses like impulse response, time energy curves, RTA60 measurement, waterfalls, phase response, and more. You can do it the hard and less effective, manual way or move into a new century style tool.
    ------------------
    Guy Kuo
    www.ovationsw.com
    Ovation Software, the Home of AVIA DVD
    [Edited last by Guy Kuo on October 23, 2001 at 05:18 PM]
     
  18. brucek

    brucek Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 1998
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Guys,
    I wrote a small review of my BFD earlier in the year. I've dragged it out and edited and updated it a little. You might be interested.
    Personally I wouldn't use a sub if it wasn't equalized - it's a must.
    Stryke Audio has a rather good test tone CD that can be purchased at this web address below. Click on test CD's......I made my own CD from a tone generator, but this one at Stryke looks good.
    www.stryke.com
    Well, I've had this device for about 6 months and even though it's already been discussed quite a bit already on most forums, I thought that I would give my opinions and concerns on its effectiveness in my HT / audio system.
    It was a result of many posts on DTF and the AVS board that convinced me to try out this device in my HT system. I certainly got lots of great advice from people who were already BFD users.
    For those few who don't know what the heck this thing is, below is the Behringer web site, but I'll give a mini explanation because simply reading the web site may still leave some people wondering..
    www.behringer.de/eng/products/digitalprocessors/dsp1100p.htm
    Generally, this piece of equipment would be used by semi-professional studios and more frequently by anyone who sets up a P.A system at a concert. Ever wonder why that huge wall of speakers directly behind the stage microphones don't cause massive amounts of feedback. Well, this device stops that feedback automatically.
    No need to discuss that any further, because it's the other feature that this unit has, that lots of people in home HT and audio are using it for.
    It has two separate (stereo) channels consisting of 12 parametric filters each, that can independently be used to tame subwoofer(s) response. If you've ever done a frequency response using a simple Radio Shack SPL meter and a 1/6 Octave tones CD on your system from 20Hz to 100Hz you'll know there is a big problem mostly caused by either - your sub(s), your sub(s) placement, or mostly your room itself.
    Myself, I have two different subwoofers, stacked and corner loaded. This seems to be the best location after much movement. But still, after doing a full frequency system response from 20Hz to 20KHz, I find the area from 20Hz to 80Hz to be very poor, with lots of peaks and valleys, as much as 15db difference. What happens of course, is that this 'hot' peak frequency dominates, and you tend to adjust your sub level to it, which means the other frequencies are reduced to a much lower level.
    The goal would be to smooth out the response, so that all the frequencies from 20Hz to 80Hz are about the same level (depending on the sound you like) and the low end response will become very smooth and even sounding.
    Enter the BFD. Each of the two channels has 12 parametric filters that can be individually controlled via the front panel in frequency, bandwidth and gain. You can adjust the gain from -48db to +16db, but realize that increasing the gain of a particular frequency has a corresponding decrease in your subwoofers dynamic range. So you hope you only have peaks and not too many valleys to tame. You can adjust the filters to just about any frequency and it's bandwidth is adjustable from 1/60th of an octave to two octaves.
    The unit has both balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs. Myself, I have the luxury of using the balanced inputs, but I use unbalanced out to my two subs. The unbalanced outputs are realized by plugging in a mono 1/4" phone to RCA converter plug you purchase at RadioShack for $3. The unit senses the unbalanced output and adjusts its level accordingly.
    I especially like the feature of being able to bypass the units' filters with a single button. It allows you to quickly compare your work.
    You can save your filter settings in any one of ten recallable profiles, so you could have one for music and one for 5.1 channel HT and one for 5.1 channel music. Myself, I have two so far. One for HT and then the other is a rather unusual affair. You see, when I put my prepro in analog bypass, it not only sends an unprocessed full range signal to my mains, it also outputs a 'full range' mixed subwoofer signal to my sub(s) which I must bass manage myself.
    I feed the output of my BFD to my two subwoofers with their own internal crossovers dialed up to max bandpass of 160Hz so that it normally will be out of range of my prepros bass managed output of 60Hz crossover. When I go to bypass though, and I receive a full range signal from the sub output of the prepro, I used to have to manually 'dial down' the two subs crossovers to about 40Hz to get the sound I like. I now have the BFD take care of this crossover duty. With a bit of work, I now have my BFD bass managing the full range signal it's fed in bypass by dropping the signal as smoothly as I can from about 40Hz at 24db/octave until I get to about the 160Hz where my subs own crossovers takes over. Seems to work pretty good. You actually have to use quite a few filters fairly closely spaced to accomplish this to avoid an undulating wavy response that you get if your filters are too far apart. Most people wouldn't use this device as a crossover though - just an equalizer.
    I have to admit it to be a rather daunting task (as I'd been warned) to equalize two different model subs, but once you get going it isn't too bad. I set up 4 Excel graphs on my computer and entered the appropriate data, first unequalized, so I would have a reference baseline from where to start. The 4 graphs were all from 20Hz to 160Hz and were (1) Sub-1 alone (2) Sub-2 alone (3) Both subs together (4) Both subs with main speakers.
    This allows you to visually see each subs response on a graph and then how they interact together and then how the total system response is, including the prepros bass management. It quickly became obvious that the two subs response was very similar and was being affected mostly by the room and not their individual characteristics.
    For my tones I used a CD-R I made of every frequency from 10Hz to 80Hz and then 1/6 octaves from there to 160Hz. It's useful to have every frequency in that low area because it allows you to narrow in on exactly the offending frequency between octaves so you can dial the BFD to that frequency. I used a Radio Shack SPL meter at my listening position for the readout and compensated for its inaccuracies.
    I feel I'm getting quite close to where I'm satisfied, but I can see the tweaking going on forever. The difference in sound is quite remarkable. Like others told me, you first think you don't have the bass turned up enough because you're so darned used to hearing the 'hot' spots. I was very successful in lowering all my peaks without any trouble. Including ones that were a fair distance past my prepros crossover, because there is still lots of signal going to the subs at 60HZ to 100Hz even though you have them crossed at 60Hz. My worst room mode was at 80 Hz. The mains are getting 80Hz but so are the subs getting 80Hz, and lowering the sub response at that frequency drops the room response very nicely. My 4 graphs really helped out. Each time I changed a filter I would completely re-enter the data for the 4 graphs to see the overall effect. I filtered my subs right out to 125 Hz even though they're crossed at 60Hz. The sound is very smooth now.
    As suggested I didn't equalize from 20Hz to 160Hz absolutely flat. I did a slow rise to the lower end. It raises about 12db from 160 to 20Hz. It ain't ruler straight yet, but it's darn close, especially compared to the roller-coaster graph of the unequalized system.
    I'm a bit of a fanatic (read nuts) when it comes to noise floor and minimum crap in my audio chain. It's the reason I have the slightly unpopular prepro that I own (not enough bells and whistles to satisfy the appetite of the 10.2 crowd I'm afraid).
    When I first read about this BFD I scoffed and said, "in a million years I'm not putting a gizmo like that in my audio chain". And I still say that about my 5 main channels, especially my sacred two analog main channels. But, in a subwoofer chain, I decided it was worth the price of admission, which is incredibly cheap for what you get. If I didn't like it, no big loss, it also makes a swell door stop.
    After receiving and using this device and then taking it apart and doing bench measurements on it, I have to say it is the bargain of the century when used as a sub EQ, although there are a few problems I'll discuss later.
    I took it to my lab at work and did some tests mainly in the low frequency range. There were several things I was interested in checking out.
    I was interested how well the ADC/DAC conversion system responded to very low volume inputs. No doubt the unit handles optimum line level inputs fine, but, does it move into distortion with very low level inputs which will certainly be the case since this unit isn't being fed a full line level (as from a CD player), but instead it's a signal that is fed from a volume control where sometimes we might be listening to very low volumes with full line signal only being in the tens of millivolts. ADC's tend to suffer when presented with this situation.
    Also, I wanted to know the low frequency response range. No use using subs that go less than 20Hz and limiting their low end input with a piece of electronics in the path. How well does this unit respond to 10HZ etc..
    Also, I wanted to see if the filters introduced any noise or distortion, and generally how accurate was their unity gain.
    Also I wanted to see what type of phase shifting the unit caused with and without filters.
    All of my testing was generally only at frequencies of interest (0Hz to 200Hz).
    The specs appear to be as good or better than advertised.
    Output signals remain very linear even with a very low input level (a problem with ADC's) across the full audio band and doesn't distort until you're slightly above the red clipping led. Using the BFD -10dBV sensitivity setting, the lowest led turns on at 17mvpk and the yellow led turns on at 1.2vpk (which corresponds to their claimed max input level of +2dBV). The red led comes on at 1.5vpk and clipping occurs at 1.6vpk. The 4th green led is about 300mv, which corresponds to the -10dBV nominal switch setting. This is certainly the sensitivity setting that should be used. The output, (after ADC/DAC conversion) tracked the input quite nicely down to 10mvpk. The lowest level LED isn't even on at this point - so quite good in that respect.
    The filters gain/frequency/BW is very accurate. 0dB gain is indeed unity on all filters that I tested for all the frequencies that I tested, although I was mostly playing with the lower spectrum.
    Frequency response appears to be greater than spec'd. The lower end continues to be linear until at least 5Hz which is certainly as far as I care about. The output level drops off below that, but continues easily to 1Hz. I'm certainly not too concerned about digitizing my low frequency chain. The sampling rate is 46KHz. At these low frequencies, that's a heck of a lot of samples. The 20 bit samples are certainly enough.
    My HP distortion analyzer only measures accurately to 0.01%. I definitely read this or lower and this is in line with their claim of 0.0075% THD. Again, who cares in the sub chain - this exceeds any requirement I have.
    The noise floor was as good as claimed, and although good, I wouldn't put their 94dB noise floor in my 110dB S/N Bryston main chain. But for a sub, it's perfect.
    Now for my problem with this and any equalizer. Phase shift. My field is electronics - I know very little about sound, so others can discuss this issue and its effect.
    Here's the deal. As I expected, with no filters on, the output exhibited a progressively greater and linear phase shift from 20Hz up to 200Hz. This is the area I was interested in. I won't type out all the results, but at 20Hz there is a 5 degree phase shift increasing in a linear fashion to 200Hz where the shift has grown to about 72 degrees. Actually, it increases all the way up to 20KHz at a linear rate. At 500Hz there is a full 180 degree shift and at 1000Hz it's back to 0 degrees. This repeats on and on.
    This is caused by the constant 1 msec processing delay in the DSP and can actually be generally compensated for by changing the distance delay of the sub with your pre/processor by about a foot. I added a foot to my distance.
    Of course, when you add in my filters, as expected, the phase differences aren't linear any more. There is some major phase changing going on as I move from 20Hz to 200Hz. Here is an example of my 20Hz to 100Hz phase data. [20Hz=7deg],[30Hz=56deg],[40Hz=175deg],[50Hz=56deg
    ],[60Hz=28deg],[70Hz=35deg],[80Hz=50deg],[90Hz=12d
    eg],[100Hz=12deg]. Now, since I have succeeded in creating a system response that is within a few db all the way from 20Hz to 200Hz, I guess I've correctly compensated for the phase problems, but it's interesting stuff anyway......
    There is an FAQ on the BFD that is quite informative and well written at: www.hometheatertalk.com/Local_Meets/HTT_Meet_/Autograph_Session/Untitl ed/Berhinger/berhinger.html .
    I do want to caution that in my opinion there are a few inaccuracies to be aware of. I'll repeat these below with my take on them....
    ********************************
    FAQ: If I am feeding the BFD a mono signal, should the filters be coupled?
    ANS: While some have debated the benefits of linking the left and right engines in series, I have always coupled the filters for subwoofer use. It gives you more potential gain and cut for each filter, although it limits the number of filters to 12. If you absolutely need 24 different filters for smaller tweaks at different frequencies, then putting the engines in series might be of some use, but the signal will go through the DACs twice, which could degrade sound quality. Also, I have yet to have a situation where more than seven filters were required to balance out the sound.
    Not true - The couple mode does not give you any more or less gain and it does not link the engines in series and it doesn't go through the DAC's twice.
    Couple mode allows you to set the independent left and right channels' filters at the same time with only one entry. In "not coupled" mode, you have to set both left and right channel filters' independently. Of course, this lets the left and right channels have different settings, but either way, both channels are completely independent and ADC / DAC processing is done independently and only once.
    'Couple' is handy if you are driving two similar subs and feel that you'll be setting all filters the same for each sub. In couple mode, you only have to enter a filter once and it will be copied to the other channel. In single mode, you'd have to enter it twice, once for each channel.
    ******************************
    FAQ: Will the BFD process signals under 20 Hz?
    ANS: No, the BFD has a digital brick wall at 20 Hz for all the filters. It will pass any information below that through, but without any filtering, even if there is a substantial boost right at 20Hz.
    Not true - It does not have a brick wall filter at 20 HZ. It will indeed pass signals down to 5Hz quite nicely. The lowest value filter that can be set is indeed 20Hz, but affects the bandpass normally as set. i.e. If a 20Hz filter with -5db @40/60BW is set, then 15Hz is suitably reduced.
    ******************************
    FAQ: What position should the input switch be in?
    ANS: Still researching. I've had it in both successfully, although one will input a much higher voltage and possibly clip the DSPs.
    Correct, but the -10dBV sensitivity setting would always be used for home - line level equipment. This will ensure the system is receiving the spec'd "nominal" level. The spec indicates max input and output levels of +2dBV at the -10dbV sensitivity setting. This is quite accurate from my bench tests.
    +2dBV translates to 1.26vpk; the yellow led turns on at 1.2vpk and the red led comes on at 1.5vpk and clipping occurs at 1.6vpk. The mid 4th led is active at 300mv, which is indeed about -10dbV, so their spec is right on the money. Use the -10dBv setting.
    The non -10dbV setting will result in nominal voltage swings far too low for the ADC system to respond properly.
    ******************************
    I do have a few beefs with BFD that I'll list below:
    The front panel lights are quite bright. If you used all 24 filters you would have 24 'really' bright red leds shining at you, not to mention the program number and an assortment of other bright green leds. This may wow the bells and whistle crowd, but they need a dimmer or reduce the current through their LEDS. I give them full marks for panel layout though - nicely done.
    The garishly large white lettering on the top panel advertising that you have a Feedback Destroyer Pro has got to go. My cabinet slot for it is a narrow height, so it's hidden, but if it's on an exposed shelf, yuk.
    My unit had a small mount of mechanical transformer hum. Typical stuff, but since I've paid a lot for a really quiet system, it kind of bugs me to hear a transformer humming. I removed the top panel and lined the contact area with rubber to see if that would help, and it did, but not enough. I then removed the power supply transformer and rubber mounted it to the case and that made the sound completely go away. Most sane people will not need to do this mod.
    In keeping with the cheap price of this unit they have provided no soft turn on. A relay delay circuit would likely add 15 bucks to the price. That's about 10%, so it didn't happen. The result is quite a horrible pop when you turn the BFD on in any downline speaker, so this unit needs to be turned on before its downline amplifier. You'll maybe need an AC sequencer or easiest yet to just leave it turned on. It draws about as much current as a couple night lights.
    It will also produce a ground loop hum if you use the three prong plug. This is standard fare whenever you insert a grounded unit in the middle of a chain like this. No big deal. Simply use a two prong 'cheater' plug and that problem is eliminated.
    Anyway, I bought my unit at a local sound shop. The had a ton of them. Look in the Yellow Pages under Sound Systems & Equipment. These kinds of places rent, sell and install sound and lighting systems for bands.
    Add a cheater plug and a few Radio Shack jacks www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTL G&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F005%5F003%5F009%5F001&product%5Fid=274%2D320 and you're ready for some interesting stuff.
    brucek
    [Edited last by brucek on October 23, 2001 at 05:45 PM]
     
  19. jeff peterson

    jeff peterson Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 1998
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    How much should we expect to pay locally? Ballpark?
     
  20. Brandon B

    Brandon B Second Unit

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I had been trying to buy a pair of BFD's since July. I had them ordered from one place and they said Behringer kept slipping the delivery date (now to January).
    Interestingly, however, they changed my order from an "1100" to an "1124". So I think what may have happened is Behringer has discontinued the 1100 in favor of a new BFD model 1124, and is either having productioon ramp up problems, or waiting until the retail channel clears out. Anyone knnow anything about this?
    I got tired of waiting and ordered a Symetrix 551E instead.
    As for good places to buy, I have had great luck with Fullcompass.com. Their catalog only lists MSRP and says call for price, but almost everything I have called about has been the lowest or nearly so of prices I have seen for a given item. My 551E was $338, + about $15 shipping.
    BB
     

Share This Page