Which Drivers To Use???

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jeffrey_S, Feb 10, 2002.

  1. Jeffrey_S

    Jeffrey_S Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi all,

    OK, just when I thought I had settled on a dual Tempest sonosub, I started thinking about Blueprint drivers. More specifically, a single 1803 vs dual Tempests.

    I'm going to use this sub for about 70% hometheater / 30% music. I'm most concerned about sonic punch during hometheater use. Now I know that the Blueprint 1803 needs some equalization, but I have no problem getting a BFD or, I might be getting a B&K AVR307 soon that has sub management / equilization built-in.

    Now the only other factor to consider, as far as I can see, is that the 1803 is more power hungry than dual Tempests. A dual Tempest sonosub will do just fine with an HS500. The 1803 requires more juice. But if I start with an amp that delivers say between 500 and 850 amps, I know that I can eventually increase my subwoofer output simply by upgrading my amp. This adds an easy future upgradeability aspect to the Blueprint route.

    Please tell me if you see any holes in my analysis and what else I might not be considering. Any input will be appreciated as I feel I need to make a decision soon.

    Thanks,

    Jeff
     
  2. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

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    If size isn't an issue, then dual Tempests will put out a tremendous amount of bass and are easier to build/power/EQ.

    Pete
     
  3. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

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    If a single EQ'd 1803 can hit ref level/listening position without exceeding their Pe limit, then why bother with the extra size/cost of dual subs?
    If not then I'm with Pete, if size isn't an issue it's a no-brainer IMO. [​IMG] In theory it would take 3kW to get the 1803 up to par with the dual Tempests/1.5kW (assuming they have similar thermal compression charactistics) and I doubt it could handle it even on transients, much less a sustained special effects rumble. Then there's the cost of the amps/adding a suitable receptacle......
    GM
     
  4. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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    Fwiw, my Unibox model of an 1803 in 14ft^3 with an 18Hz Fb shows it hitting 120dB from 18Hz on up with 1600 watts input, anechoic. You'd need a 10" port, I'd think (long). As far as Pe, it's 1000 watts, but Pat from Blueprint states that that's pretty conservative, and that they've hit it with 2000 watts for extended periods, so 1600w on transients seems like it should be ok. Looks like the driver is just at Xmax at that point, and nowhere near Xmech.
     
  5. Greg Monfort

    Greg Monfort Supporting Actor

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    Ok, but there's precious little size savings with your design so about all you could do is total up the costs, plus the vent length is long enough on the 1803 to require some means of damping it with the attendent loss of output (which kinda defeats the purpose for HT), or build a box and use PRs.

    So assuming both use 1.5kW, are two Tempests/dual 6" vents more expensive than a 1803/dual PRs? Also, since the 1803 will need to be overdriven to ~match the Tempests in sims, will they compress more, ergo unable to ~match them WRT 'sonic punch'?

    GM
     
  6. Mal P

    Mal P Stunt Coordinator

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    For absolute fidelity, have a go at the Seas Millenium tweeter, and Seas W18 mid-ranges. Unbelievable transparency. Also, check out the W22 woofers if you really need full range speakers.

    Cheers,

    Mal
     
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  8. Jeffrey_S

    Jeffrey_S Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks everyone for all the insightful info.

    Although some of what has been said is a bit over my head, what I'm taking away from this is that I should go with the dual Tempest sonosub.

    What I'm probably going to make is the sub that I've heard Dan Wiggins recommends when doing dual Tempests in a sonotube. 24" x 72" sonotube, 1.5" endcaps, one 6"ID x 20"long vent and one Tempest in each endcap. This should yeild about a 480L enclosure. An HS500 should be enough power for this sub.

    If some of you could comment on the need for stuffing I'd appreciate it. Also, what are my alternatives for an amp. I will probably be doing some equalization due to listening room problems anyway. Would another amp suit me better?

    Thanks again for all the help!

    Jeff
     
  9. Patrick Sun

    Patrick Sun Moderator
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    If you're going with a vented enclosure, stuffing won't be paramount to getting high quality bass as long as you get the requisite enclosure volume right and build the sub correctly to minimize airleaks. Stuffing is mainly used for people wanting to minimize the enclosure size and "fooling" the driver into 'seeing' more volume then actually exists in the smaller enclosure.
     
  10. Mike Strassburg

    Mike Strassburg Second Unit

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    Jeffrey,

    That's the sub I'm building.....IF/WHEN those darn drivers/HS500 ever ship. Dan recommended 8#'s of stuffing, but some have questioned this so I'm going to contact him.
     
  11. Jeffrey_S

    Jeffrey_S Stunt Coordinator

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    Mike,

    I sent Dan an e-mail last Friday asking him to confirm my specs for construction and asking about stuffing. If I hear from him first, I'll post the details here. Do you have any idea when the drivers and amp will be available again?

    Jeff
     
  12. Mal P

    Mal P Stunt Coordinator

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    I could've sworn this thread was talking about DIY speakers. :b



    Cheers,

    Mal
     
  13. Mike Strassburg

    Mike Strassburg Second Unit

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    Nancy W said the Tempests were in stock, but the HS500's where held up in Customs, so I'm waiting to have it all shipped at once. They "should" ship in about 2 weeks. I'm getting a little anxious to build/hear this thing...
     
  14. Mike.D.K

    Mike.D.K Stunt Coordinator

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    I had two tempest sonotubes. 10 cubic ft tuned to 18 hz. I now have two 1803's. Each in their own sonotube 10cubic ft. One 1803 has more output than both tempest. I did buy a bigger amp, I went from 500 watts per channel to 1000 watts per channel. I didn't realize what one sub could do or I would have only built one. One of these will actually make my cabinet doors rattle. I never got that from the tempests. You won't bottom the 1803's ,unless you are at insane levels. I've had both and I'll keep my 1803's.
     
  15. Jeffrey_S

    Jeffrey_S Stunt Coordinator

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    OK, Now I'm confused again!!!

    Mike.D.K,

    What exactly are the specifics on your sonotube subs? Are they vented and if so with what size and length vent? What amp are you using for each?

    Thanks,

    Jeff
     
  16. Mike.D.K

    Mike.D.K Stunt Coordinator

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    I used 10 cubic ft tuned to 18hz. 36 inch port 8 inch diameter. Each sub gets 1000 watts. The 1803 needs more amp than the Tempest. THe Tempest done great with the 500 watts I was giving them. Either way you decide to go you'll be happy. I like the extra impact I get from the 1803. Also at loud volumes you are less likely to bottom the 1803. The big advantage to the Tempest is the ability to use a smaller amp. When I built these 1803's I had to double the wattage.
     

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