Which Component Cables (Need answers fast) (1 Viewer)

[BrianMu]

Brian,
We are in a similar situation as far as equipment goes but there is one important difference. I am not planning on getting a HD RPTV any time soon (next 5 years anyway). By the time I do get one, component videos could be completely outdated. So I need something that will suffice for the present without regard to future upgrades. I am really doubting that I would be able to see any difference in quality between a cheap well constructed cable and a $100 BC cable. I know it's impossible to quantify, but how drastic of a difference does a really good cable make over a decent cheap cable in this type of setup? Is it the type thing where you'd have to have two identical DVD players and movies playing at the same time with 2 different cables and switch back and forth to see a just very subtle (to my untrained eyes) difference?
Brian

 

[Mark Rich]

Quality cables are made by RhinoCables.com and if my memory serves me they are located in Canada and use top of the line Belden 1694a cable.You could also check out wickedcables.com they use Belden 1505a based cables.

 

[Brian OK]

Brian,
I agree component will most likely be bye-bye in the timespan you mention, probably sooner.
But for the here and now..... at least for me, the swap to the BC Ultra brought with it a better black level, with light/dark gradation increasing with accuracy. The colors were more vibrant (probably the MOST noticable difference, IMO), and the entire image had a more 3D depth to it.
Granted, it is a matter of degrees. Surely, not a night and day difference. But, nevertheless, perceptible to me to the extent that I was tickled. Even my beloved wife noticed the improved color saturation.
Without getting prose heavy, it was an appreciated bump-up in video quality.
These days, in a new dedicated basement HT room, two new dedicated 12AWG circuits, with Pass&Seymour 5262A outlets brought another perceptible video upgrade. To my surprise the new circuit for the RPTV saw a similar bump in image quality. Yep, again, color saturation jumped again.
It is all in increments, however small. I guess that is my point. But with BC return policy of 6 months...... I say give it a try. Be like an XMASS present for yourself. You can always send it back.
BOK

 

[Kevin Coleman]

Ken,
I tend to agree with Jim, Nick and Guy,
RG6 will do fine if handled properly. I use it on my 92" screen and I couldn't tell the difference between it and the tributaries cables I tried in a double blind test. IMO any claims of one cable being better than another without doing a double blind test to eliminate the placebo/bias that will be there, renders any such observations invalid.
Kevin C.

 

[Chip E]

Kevin said:
"IMO any claims of one cable being better than another without doing a double blind test to eliminate the placebo/bias that will be there, renders any such observations invalid."
Kevin, if my eyes see it, it's good enough for me babe. Invalid to what? What i may see? yeah right, lol...
- Chip
------------------

 

[Jim A. Banville]

"Kevin, if my eyes see it, it's good enough for me babe. Invalid to what? What i may see? yeah right, lol...
- Chip"
Some people claim to see Elvis
Some people claim that after electricity has traveled many miles to their home through the cheapest conductor the power company can provide, that simply changing a component's 4' power cord to one that costs several hundred dollars (and is made from only copper and plastic) makes a "visual" improvement.
Heck, I even read a review by Stereophile's Jonathon Scull where he thought an amp sounded better when he loosened a single screw on the cover! We know where the loose screw is
If expensive video cables outperform "generic" RG6 so much, why hasn't there been an un-biased definitive study based on double-blind tests (neither viewers nor "cable-switcher" knows which cable is the "better" one)? Once it was done, which would be SO easy to do, all of us skeptics would buy the expensive cables too! Seems like the cables makers have a great opportunity to promote their cable's superiority, but they have failed

They prefer to "talk-up" their cables.

 

[Mike Knapp]

Just checking in....it appears you guys can have a cable war without my input. Tally ho!
Mike

 

[Alex F.]

Gotta have those published double-blind tests.
That's why I continue to buy the cheapest house-brand spaghetti sauce instead of making my Italian mother's recipe. Everybody "oohs" and "aahs" about Mom's sauce, but until I see a published test comparing the two, I'm sticking with the canned stuff. No snake-oil home-made pasta sauce for this skeptical smart guy.

 

[Mark Rich]

This cable debate never fails to amuse me. I too thought cables made no difference until I tried a variety. I think the people who claim that zip cord is all they need and quality cables are a waste are the ones that haven't tried others.
I think the argument could be made for audio cables ( think they are system sensitive) but not video. With video even an untrained eye can tell the difference including my young children.
The argument can be easily resolved by trying good quality cables. Not mega buck audio/videophile cables. If you don't notice any improvement in your system simply return them and try another. If still no improvement go back to your OEM, radio shack cheapies or Zip cord.
Of course this is simply my opinion.

 

[Jim A. Banville]

"Gotta have those published double-blind tests."
Why not? Who's afraid of them? The cable makers? The magazines that may loose advertisers? Are they afraid it will turn out like the DD vs. DTS test where there was no winner?

 

[Mike Knapp]

Here's the thing Jim.
Why would anyone want to spend the money to conduct a test? What could happen?
Do you think a test that proves a difference is going to make the skeptics throw their scopes away and high-tail it down to the store to buy some new expensive wiring?
Do you suppose a test that prove no difference would make the wire fanatic demand a refund or stop someone that hears a difference from buying the wires?
Why should the cable companies fund such a test? What do they have to gain? To prove the skeptics wrong? Well we both know that the test process itself would be suspect and the skeptics would continue their battle.
Why dont the skeptics fund the test? Then they could publish the results in their magazine that is sponsored by whoever they feel was the beneficeriary of their testing. The we could complain that the tests were rigged because the cheaper wire manufacturer was a sponsor of the magazine. Hows that sound?
Mike
[Edited last by Mike Knapp on October 26, 2001 at 04:11 PM]

 

[Phil Nichols]

Jim,
Double-blind tests are not as good as this:
Side-by-side A/B comparison tests with all parameters equal but the cables are the ultimate if your equipment can do it.
I set my RPTV on spit screen. Put the same high-quality image into side A and side B but with one video cable into side A and another video cable into side B, being careful to have each side set up identical on the RPTV. Have the sound OFF, as sound interfers with vision concentration.
Now look at detail in the identical images such as jewelry on people's clothes, chrome on vehicles, tree leaves in the background, etc.,
If you can see a difference after careful and long inspection call the side you like the best the result of the cable feeding it.
I did this on my RPTV ...... and yes, ultra-fine detail was superior with Nordost Optix video cabling over cables costing a lot less. I did not try direct competitors of Nordost, just El Cheapo and Monster versus Nordost - but I became a Nordost video cable customer.

 

[Phil Nichols]

Oooops ...... correction in my post above:
My test RPTV screen did not have "spit" on it - I actually had the screen "split".

 

[Alex F.]

Everbody's been found out. It's a massive conspiracy. The cable makers prevent any and all testing in their factories and by consumers. Plus all media firms are in the pockets of the cable companies, hence no double-blind testing by magazines. And we all know the infallibility of double-blind tests.
Remember, ill will befall you if you make any attempt to compare cables in your home. The cable cops are watching you.

 

[Graeme Shiomi]

To put Mike's argument in more quantitative terms:
DBT Cost = $X
Scenario A:
DBT Proves No difference
Result from Scenario A:
0 Cable Naysayers move to boutique cable (why would they, since they've been proven right)
0 Boutique Cable users stop using boutique cable (why would they, since they still feel better using boutique cable)
Scenario B:
DBT Proves there is a difference
Result from Scenario B:
0 Cable Naysayers move to boutique cable (why would they, since it's only been proven that there is a difference, NOT that the expensive cable sounds BETTER)
0 Boutique Cable users stop using boutique cable (for obvious reasons)
So in the end, the DBT Costs $X, and the company gains $0. Economically speaking, doesn't seem like a good idea.
Answer honestly: Would any of the people on this post who do not believe in cable, start buying more expensive cable if a DBT resulted in a difference being heard? Would any of the people on this post who do believe in cable stop buying more expensive cable if a DBT resulted in no difference being heard?
I'll answer my question: I've seen reports posted that DBT ended in no difference being detected. I still buy good cable.
Graeme

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

MK sez,
>>>Why dont the skeptics fund the test? Then they could publish the results in their magazine...

 

[Mike Knapp]

Don't ask for a test...when you'll just poh-poh it anyway if the result isn't what you want it to be...or has your POV on DBT changed?

Tom,
POV still the same!
I am not asking for tests, we both know that I am not concerned with the results of any tests.
I was stating that if tests were desired, then those wanting the information should have the responsibility of performing them. They should not expect those that are un-interested to foot the bill for tests they neither need nor desire.
Mike
[Edited last by Mike Knapp on October 26, 2001 at 07:26 PM]

 

[Karim Nogas]

Would any of the people on this post who do not believe in cable, start buying more expensive cable if a DBT resulted in a difference being heard?

Actually, yes.
Since I do not have the technical expertise or equipment to do such tests on my own, I have to rely on my own research and read the opinions of many such as on this board.
If someone who has provided me and others with good advice in the past shares his positive or negative experiences with cable X, Y, Z, I'll listen. I then will be more inclined or disinclined to purchase as a result.

 

[Mike Knapp]

Karim,
Think carefully....you would go from 10 dollar a pair interconnects to 85 dollar a pair interconnects (or even up to a 300 dollar pair) if the test proved beyond the shadow of a doubt a slight positive improvement?
How about from a 10 dollar 10' speaker cable to a 200 dollar 10' speaker cable?
In reality, that is what we are talking here. We arent speaking of a 10 dollar pair versus a 20 dollar pair.
I would (and have) made that jump before and I didnt need a test to guide me. I truly feel that those requiring a test to aid their decision process will not make that vast a leap....regardless of the test results.
Be honest now.....would any of you skeptics make that leap? Or...would you listen and determine if you could hear a difference and let that decide whether you buy or not?
Interesting, dont you think?
I can see it now....blind test proves differences between 10 dollar interconnects and 85 dollar ones and the skeptics use their listening skills to determine that the difference is not worth the increase in price to them. hahaha That would be rich!
Mike
[Edited last by Mike Knapp on October 26, 2001 at 09:04 PM]

 

[Jim A. Banville]

I do think you people are over-thinking this whole thing. You get one TV and one DVD player. Set up a good quality "no-name" RG6 set of cables along side a premium priced cable. Put the same scene (movie or test pattern) in A/B loop in front of several people. Let someone switch the cables back and forth (put DVD player on the floor behind the TV and it shouldn't take more than 15 seconds to switch the plugs). Let them tell you which cable looks "better" or even if they see a difference without them knowing which cable they are watching. Actually, I'd be AMAZED if anyone could see a difference 100% of the time. If someone does seem to do this, tricking them by unplugging and plugging in the same cable set will surely trip them up. I may be wrong. Every person in the group may see a difference 100% of the time, and that difference may be in favor of the premium cable. Does that mean I would buy the premium cable? Maybe, after all I am looking for the best picture within my budget, but I would shut up about saying their are no visible differences between cables
Is this proposed test "perfect"? I doubt it. Does THAT matter? Not to me. As long as someone can consistently tell one cable from the other 100% of the time is all I ask. This sounds like a perfect "event" for the next HTF get-together With the resources available from the people here, there should be no problem getting a good display and DVD player together with several different premium an no-name cables to test. Unless, of course, someone is afraid that people won't see a difference