Which Component Cables (Need answers fast)

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ken Makela, Oct 23, 2001.

  1. Ken Makela

    Ken Makela Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi,
    Yesterday I ordered the Toshiba 57HX81 and SD3750. My components' location requires a cable run of about 20',under a crawl space, and I'm wondering which cables I should get. I looked at the Better Cables site and they do have the Silver Serpents available in that length, but I'm not willing to spend $300.00 (CDN) for cables that will be hooked-up to a $350.00 DVD player. I was at the Monster Site and they have one called the MV3CV-6M (6 metres)for around $200.00. Does anyone have this cable and is it adequate for progressive scan and a future Echostar HD satellite receiver?
    Ken
     
  2. Andrew Pratt

    Andrew Pratt Producer

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    Ken the monster cables will work and will be adequate...previous posters who have upgraded from monsters to either http://www.catcables.com
    ------------------
    http://www.mts.net/~glendap/
     
  3. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Ken, try searching eBay for the word "Canare". There are 2 or 3 guys who build these cables and sell them. This would give you the true 75-ohm Canare connectors and HD-rated coax. You'd have to email the guys for a quote on the 20 feet.
     
  4. Jim A. Banville

    Jim A. Banville Supporting Actor

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    Unless you want to spend to much, just pick up 3 F-pin terminated 20' RG6 coaxial cable runs from Radio Shack and put F-pin -to- RCA plug adaptors on the ends. The picture will be just as good as the cables the snake oil salemen want to sell you for hundreds of dollars. You'll see people who claim to see a "better" picture when going to higher priced cables, but there are NO published, reputable double blind tests that PROVE that these high priced cables are any better than a good RG6 cable.
     
  5. Nick G

    Nick G Stunt Coordinator

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    I second what Jim said.
     
  6. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    Hmmm, plain vanilla RG-6. Sounds interesting....
    I'll test some Silver Serpent BC Component cables versus the RG6 and report back late next week.
    ------------------
    Take Care,
    merc
    ----------------
    [​IMG]
    God Bless America!!!
     
  7. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    I'm afraid I must disagree with both Jim and Nick.
    Coax is rated by its upper frequency limits. Generic RG6 is ment for RF frequencies. Video signals are higher frequency so they work better with a higher-bandwidth cable. When you go to Progressive, you have a higher frequencies still.
    Yes, you CAN hook up RG6 and see video. And it will LOOK fine. But you have what is called a "Slant" problem. This is where the lower frequencies are reduced a bit, but the upper frequencies are reduced a LOT.
    Take a look at this chart for some good Canare coax that will handle HD signals:
    [​IMG]
    Your generic coax will start to slant downwards a lot sooner, and likely a sharper drop-off.
    Guess what: your generic coax is about $0.40/ft and you need 3 cables so this will cost you $1.20 /foot. The high-end Canare cable we are talking about is $1.90 /foot from www.markerteck.com This is not mega-buck cable, nor snake oil. Just good, industry standard coax.
    (Note: When "Secrets of Home Theater" did their comparison of Progressive Scan DVD players, they did both a visual test, and used some very sensitive video-test equipment. They tried several cables, but found the measurements would change with different cables or even by moving or touching the connector. They solved the problem by using Canare coax and Canare connectors on a cable they built themselves.)
    If you want to do your own, I do encourage it. But order some of the Canare V3-5CFB cable.
    Good Luck.
     
  8. David_Schiller

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    Bob seems to have a good suggestion. I installed the Monster Video3 8m component cable under the border of some flooring I put in a year ago, then when I got my new TV this month, I hooked it up for the first time and it didn't work! I ordered the 8m Silver Serpent component cable from BetterCables.com for $215 and will pull up the Monster Cable at some later date. By the way, I hear Monster Cable's lifetime warranty doesn't cover cable that is installed under a floor or behind a wall (even though I never step on the edge where the cable is).
    Read about my sad tale of woe at http://www.hometheaterspot.com/cgi-b...&f=10&t=006410
     
  9. Guy Kuo

    Guy Kuo Supporting Actor

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    Fine except the RF frequencies that RG6 is designed to accomodate are HIGHER than baseband video frequencies. Let's not get the relative ranges backwards. Even progressive signals are well below the gigahertz range that RG6 is capable of carrying.
    ------------------
    Guy Kuo
    www.ovationsw.com
    Ovation Software, the Home of AVIA DVD
     
  10. Bryan Acevedo

    Bryan Acevedo Second Unit

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    Thanks Guy - exactly the kind of FACTS I like to see posted here. So much opinion - people start stating them as facts and confusing the rest of us - it is good to see something that seperates these facts from fictions.
    Bryan
     
  11. Brian OK

    Brian OK Supporting Actor

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    Ken,
    If you are going to shop, you may want to send off an e-mail to Char (his name , I believe) at below address:
    www.home.inreach.com/cspra/cables1a.html
    He makes Canare Component Video cables of high quality with very fair prices.
    His listed price for a 3M Component set is $88. You will need to ask him for an 8M quote once there. He also offers an upgraded Component set which has "added filtering".
    I have no affiliation with this fellow, just heard of him at the audio asylum site.
    Just a FYI if you do decide to shop for the best price < $200.
    I just find his offerings about the best price-wise on the net.
    Good Luck
    BOK
     
  12. Jim A. Banville

    Jim A. Banville Supporting Actor

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    "Guess what: your generic coax is about $0.40/ft and you need 3 cables so this will cost you $1.20 /foot. The high-end Canare cable we are talking about is $1.90 /foot from www.markerteck.com This is not mega-buck cable, nor snake oil. Just good, industry standard coax."
    I couldn't find the cables you are talking about, but in the above quote are you comparing the price per foot of three generic RG6 cables to a single premium cable?
     
  13. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Guy: I agree that RG6 can handle microwave frequencies quite well (thats why we use it for our DSS systems). But DSS signals are DIGITAL: they can tolerate a lot of damage and still appear as perfect transmissions. Compared to the miles of atmosphere the signals go through, cheap coax is a huge step-up.
    My understanding is that to obtain a signal from RF or a DSS, a given channel is a narrow frequency band. Some center frequency and +/- a few khz.
    The problem with 3 different analog video signals down a coax, you have to consider what happens to the lowest frequency, and the highest.
    Example:
    Your DVD player puts out these signals:
    (I'm going to use RGB for the 3 signals because I cannot remember the standard abbreviations for Chroma,Luminance, etc).
    G = 1.234 volts
    B = 1.234 volts
    R = 1.234 volts
    With a good coax, what arrives at your projector is:
    G = 1.230 volts (small drop)
    B = 1.100 volts (bit larger drop)
    R = 1.000 volts (large drop)
    This is because the higher frequencies are attenuated (reduced) more than the lower ones.
    With some generic coax, what arrives at your projector is:
    G = 1.210 volts (small drop)
    B = 1.050 volts (larger drop)
    R = 0.850 volts (big drop)
    This is where the slope of those curves I linked in becomes important. It tells you how much of a drop you are going to have from the LOWEST to the HIGHEST frequency.
    (Yes, I'm pulling these numbers out of my bu... ear. DONT treat these as actual test results. I'm just trying to illustrate why the frequency-response curves are important. [​IMG])
    Lets get real: For a system with a 35" tube and a 4 foot run of coax between the DVD player and the TV, you are not going to see any difference between Canare and generic RG6. I'll concede this point.
    But have you ever looked at something that looked smooth/pure under a magnifying glass so that imperfections started to appear?
    What happens when you take a signal that looks fine on a 19" tube and blow it up to 40/50/60/80/100 inches? Do imperfections appear? Sure.
    What happens when your run length goes from 4 feet to 10/15/25 feet? Does anything happen to the signal? Sure.
    So when your system is more demanding, You might want to consider moving to the same cables that are used in the production studios.
    So lets do the math for Ken's 20 foot cable:
    Radio Shack RG6 (3 runs @ 0.49/ft) = $29.40
    Canare V-5CFB (1 bundle @ $1.90/ft) = $38.00
    This is a difference of: $8.60 - Not a huge extra investment.
    (Ok, Canare has some extra expenses like shipping charges, cut charges, etc. But we are still talking sub $100 prices to get some high-quality stuff.)
     
  14. Jim A. Banville

    Jim A. Banville Supporting Actor

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    "So lets do the math for Ken's 20 foot cable:
    Radio Shack RG6 (3 runs @ 0.49/ft) = $29.40
    Canare V-5CFB (1 bundle @ $1.90/ft) = $38.00
    This is a difference of: $8.60 - Not a huge extra investment."
    Is that $38.00, 20' Canare cable terminated?
     
  15. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
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    Ken:
    All I can say is that a friend of mine that has helped me out with the programming on this site in the past had the Monster component cables running to his FPTV that was about a 30 foot run. He thought that he had a good looking picture and I talked him into getting the Silver Serpents from Bettercables. Well when he hooked them up he had to take them back out of his system and hook back up the monster cables to make sure that he was seeing what he was seeing. The difference was that much.
    Our own Robert George didn't want to believe that they would make that much of a difference until he was talked into trying them out and noticed that much of a difference that he got Brad as his "Official" cable supplier.
    Bettercables is the "Official" supplier of AVS forum. And I guarantee there is not a whole lot of people on that site that don't know what they are doing, when it comes to video, and the majority of them use Bettercables.
    Mike Knapp that runs Home Theater Talk has them in his own system. And he is a cable guy.
    What I am saying here is that a LOT of people that know what they are talking about, when it comes to video and the cable that supplies it to their sets, use Bettercables. Not because some test or report told them it was better but because to their trained eyes their video just looked better.
    I made Bettercables the "Official" supplier of HTF for no other reason than they sell an excellent product, with excellent customer support and service. I can tell you that if I didn't believe in their product line they wouldn't be an advertiser on this site.
    And lastly. He offers an unconditional 90 return on any cable that he sells.
    I think it is worth your time to check them out.
    Parker
     
  16. BrianMu

    BrianMu Stunt Coordinator

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    I've been reading this thread and others like it trying to figure out the best component cable based on performance/price for my situation. I've got a Toshiba 50" RPTV (analog) and a $250 non-progressive DVD player so I'm not going to spend $100 on a 3 meter cable to connect them. I have found some GE 12' component cables at Target for $20 that look ok. Am I going to see any difference between those and $80 cables with my setup?
    Thanks for any advise you can give me,
    Brian
     
  17. Robert George

    Robert George Screenwriter

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    Brian:
    On a standard interlaced monitor and DVD player of that level, I would not recommend anything above a well-made component cable. I'm not sure that GE cable would meet my definition of a "well-made cable", but if you are satisfied, that is what is important.
    However, if you would like to try something that may offer some improvement in picture quality, I have some cable I was using prior to upgrading to Silver Serpents. These are Liberty Interflex Z300. This is the second best cable I have used. I have a couple of 3 meter runs and a 5 meter run. Email me if you are interested in trying them out. I will accept a return if you don't see an improvement worth what you pay me.
     
  18. BrianMu

    BrianMu Stunt Coordinator

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    Robert,
    What would you consider a "well-made cable" that would be readily available? I'm not at my own computer now but I might just drop you an email later to learn more about the 3 meter run of the Liberty Interflex Z300 you have also.
    Thanks,
    Brian
     
  19. Guy Kuo

    Guy Kuo Supporting Actor

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    Bob, the comment that DSS is digital has little to nothing do with the discussion. The signal from the LNA to the receiver is in the analog domain and at difficult to carry high frequencies. The RG6 must have a very high bandwidth to carry the signal. Video is easier to carry due to its lower bandwidth requirement. RG6 exceeds those needs, but is thick and inflexible.
    I agree with the idea that there is a tilt to ALL cables including the Canare. I'm merely pointing out that RG6 is a "good coax" with a bandwidth at over an order of magnitude higher than baseband video and unlikely to exhibit any more tilt in the very limited video baseband. Yes, Canare cable is good, but RG6 is a very low cost, good coax when appropriately handled.
    ------------------
    Guy Kuo
    www.ovationsw.com
    Ovation Software, the Home of AVIA DVD
     
  20. Brian OK

    Brian OK Supporting Actor

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    Brian,
    Our point of reference is very similar.... i.e we both use ANALOG Toshiba RPTV's, and we both use < $300. non-progressive DVD players (mine being the Panny RV80).
    Are we both waiting for HD RPTV's to settle down (connectivity standards), and at the same time be more "affordable". For me, yes.
    So, with that said, my intent (while I wait) was to maximixe the image quality my setup could deliver. Lord knows that if I am going to wait it out a year or so, I want to be watching the best possible analog image I can.
    I own the Better Cables 2M Ultra Compenent set. It replaced a $200. Monster M1000 Silver set I had. Meaning that it bested it by no small margin in my eyes. I paid $99 for the Ultra. Sure, it cost a few dollars more than most store brands, but it delivered better image quality than Monster's top-of-the-line component cable.
    My point is price is relative to the quality of the image when video cables are concerned,IMO (and experience).
    Better Cables uses quality components, solid connectors, and is worth the additional cost if one is going to stick it out in analog land for awhile.
    Of course YMMV, but when in the analog domain, we have to squeeze out every improvement in signal quality that we can. And the BC Ultra certainly did that for me.
    Good Luck,
    BOK
     

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