Which B&W speaker to buy? (1 Viewer)

[rodneyH]

I can accept that, I guess my "inside info" is wrong, I think that it is flat out wrong to tell people that "they are THE EXACT same thing", when instead "they are almost the same, except for the internal wiring is a different grade". I do know that the CDM is a great sounding speaker for the $$, I apologize if I have mis-lead anyone. I guess it is almost like saying "the Maxima and I35 use THE SAME EXACT engine", when infact the I35 has a better tuned engine (with a few different goodies) to get 5 extra HP.

Like I said before, my info told me that they were the exact same as the 804 and 805, but that the 803 and up used the Flat wire, it sounds to me (if that article is correct) that this is used on hte 805 as well. Not only did I have some "inside info" (that now appears to be wrong), but it also seemed to coorelate with the brochures as both the 800 series and CDM series, under the specs page say "Nautilus tweeter", which seemed to match my info. So technically speaking I have a "Nautilus tweeter" but it is slightly different that the "Nautilus tweeter" on the 800 series. Interesting? I guess it is a good thing that I bought the speaker based on how it sounded verses what the claims and specs were.

 

[Gil D]

Tom is correct. All Nautilus 80x speakers have the tweeter with the lighter former and wire. Electrically no big benefit but since it is lighter than there are some benefit in dynamics. All of the other parts are the same. So they are slightly different as B&W tells us but we know the highs in the 80x speakers are noticably smoother than the CDMnt. Crossover differences may even be more significant sonically between the 2 families.

So I guess that is that and we all can move on.

Rodney,

So 1500-1700 would be a good target price for CDM7nt-CDM9nt used and in good condition. I am not sure if I am better off just paying the extra $ and getting them new from a dealer with warranty. Are blown tweeters and FST drivers a risk these days? I found 2 cases of bad 804's a couple of years ago in showrooms. One with a dead tweeter, the other with a replaced FST.

Gil

 

[rodneyH]

Gil, I would say that those would be reasonable prices.

About the warrentee issues, I haven't heard of any. I do know that B&W is a good company that takes care of its customers. At my friends dealer, he had a line up of about 10 speakers (5 sets) all with the Nautilus tweeter (I think they were all 800 series or maybe a cdm or 2) he had the grills off of all of them and the screens off all the tweeters. He is in his office and starts to hear a "pop....pop...pop....pop...pop...pop...pop..pop.... pop..pop" so he goes out to see what is going on, apperantly the salesman that was helping a custome wasn't very aware of his surroundings and very focused on the customer, well this customer had a little kid with him and he poked EVERY tweeter in (the customer thought nothing of it), my buddy called B&W to tell them the news, the immediately sent out 10 new diaphrams, at NO CHARGE!!!, a couple months later he was in his office again and hears a "pop....pop" and he jumps out of his office, he knew this time what was going on. He again called B&W and almost embarassed that it happened a 2nd time, they graciously sent out 2 more-NO CHARGE. Needless to say, he doesn't take the screens off the tweeters anymore.

 

[Jeff Kad]

Not much more I can add here except that I've just gone thru the same excercise and here are my thoughts: started with CDM1NT and N805. Love the sound of the CDM1NT and very favorable compared to N805 (not better mind you, just very comparable for the price diff. BEFORE I even hooked up the system, I had a chance to listen to CDM 7NTs vs CDM9NTs side by side. 9NTs slightly but clearly sounded deeper and fuller (sorry for the non-audiophile terms) than the 7NTs. As I intended to do 2 channel listening as well as HT, I wanted the extra depth so I didn't have to use a sub. Hate sub/sat integration on music, never sounds right to me. I found a used pair of 9NTs on Audiogon.com for $1800 and they are being delivered today. I am selling the CDM1NTs (as Tom Grooms knows) on Audiogon, but will likely be picking up a pair in natural cherry for living room (wife olves the sound but wants matching color to hardwood floor).

So, bottom line, CDM1NTs sound great, and I think you'll be very happy mated with your SVS subs. But the extra oomph of the 9NTs (and 7NTs), are really nice for music if you prefer really tight bass from smaller floorstander drivers rather than sub-provided bass. As for comments on the CDM center, I called B&W about matching CDMCNT or HTM2 with 9NTs, and they said CDMCNT was still better match. Also, while the CDMCNT is not beautiful, I've read repeatedly that it performs better across a wider horizontal plane than centers where tweeter is placed between two woofers/midbass drivers. Apparently called "lobing" effect or something like that. Sure the experts on the forum can elaborate on this better than I.

 

[rodneyH]

Jeff, very well said

 

[Frank_S]

In the beginning I owned 602S2's, then CDM7SE's, now N804's. I can say that everytime I upgraded there was a substantial sonic improvement. I had the same electronics(separates)with the CDM7's so I can directly compare their performance in my room for you. The CDM7's image very nicely
but the Nautilus line improves even further in this area, midrange is so sweet with the Nautilus that once you've heard them, you can't go back.
Going from 602's to either of the Naut. or CDMNT line will be huge but if you can afford the N805's, see if you can have a 30 day trial period with them. You may find that you can or cannot blend your SVS subs easily with them that case, the floorstanders would be the way to go.
A good inexpensive tool to help blend your sub/mains is the Stereophile Test CD 2 or 3. Use this CD in combination with a RS SPL meter and you can see what frequencies need help in your room. BTW, I use a Rel Storm III sub to complement my N804's crossed at 22 hz. Good luck Kevin!

 

[Stephen_Dar]

I'll just add that my experience is similar to Frank's. I started out shopping Def Techs, then I heard the CDM 7s just before the NT line came out in the summer of 2000. These were a clear step up in my view, and the friends I brought along agreed. I went back to continue listening to the CDM 7s and was then persuaded to listen to the N805s. At this point, I made 2 observations. First, the Nautilus were substantially better than the 7s, clearer, more dynamic, with surprising bass from a small speaker, crisp and revealing of good source material. Second, I better stop listening to stuff in higher price brackets So, I went with the 805s and was very happy (running from Krell electronics), but 6 months later I had some good fortune and decided to upgrade to the 803s. But, it stops there! (yeah). So, my listening experience, and others I took out, always showed a solid improvment at every level in the B & W line, and the final determination should simply be your budget. Hope this helps.

 

[rodneyH]

beware when you compare the CDMSE and the CDMNT, I auditioned the CDNSE before I bought my 602 and frankly I didn't like them that much and my dealer freind totally agreed with me, THEN when they came out with the NT things have totally changed (seriously). BUT, I will agree, I would rather have the 804 or above (no question)!!

 

[rodneyH]

Rajeek, The 805 is cheaper than the 9

also, did it ever tempt you to get, say 601s for the rears/surrounds, a CDMCNT and the 804 ($5100) VS your set up ($5400). If so, what are your thought??? (I guess it would probably all depend on if your are mostly a 2 channel guy of a surround guy)

 

[Gil D]

Rodney,

You are reading my mind except $3500 or so would be a better price point with only 1 pair of surrounds. Personally I am more interested in improving music thru the mains than dialogue over the center channel even for movies. DPL2 Music mode also works great with this scenario. Where you might suffer a little is in sacd and dvd-audio, but I don't think by much.

With N805 you need a pair of stands and don't get a huge improvement in the midrange.

 

[Jeff Kad]

Good alternative, Rodney, except that now Rajee has to get the HTM1 or HTM2 center (MORE$$) and possibly go to separates or better amp with tx49 as preamp (heard the Nautilus line is a little harder to drive than lesser B&Ws).

Of course, now you've got me thinking as well! RAJEE: how do you like the Pioneer vsx49tx? I'm torn between that and the B&K307. Would love to hear opinions, find related reviews or threads.

 

[Jeff Kad]

Thanks for the info Rajee! Starting to sway over to the 49tx.

 

[Joseph_W]

I picked the 7NT over the 9NT for two reasons:

1)money - I could buy a subwoofer for the difference

2)I liked the idea the 7NT had the same mid range driver the CDMCNT had.

I chose the 7/9NTs over the 805 because I liked not having to buy an expensive stand.

Never looked (OK, I looked) at the 804 - way out of my league

Any of these speakers will sound excellent once you get them home.

Joe

 

[rodneyH]

Joseph, well said.

As for the 601s and rear speakers, that is what I use. They are great, I have even seen people using them with the 800 series and are very satisfied, I am not sure that the cdmCENTER wouldn't match the 804 fronts just about as well as the HTM2 (the HTM1 is basically a 804 on its side, but you pay BIG $$ for that one). the HTM2 is about the same as a 805, but uses the different driver than the 804 and up, but people still do it.

As far as surround music and movies, I don't think you would notice anything in the movie situation, and even with music, there really isn't even close to equal information in the rear. I love DVD concerts, and my 601s do very well, I feel NO need to upgrade, I will even keep them when way down the road I get the 804s (waaaaaaaay down th road).

I do understand what you are saying about matching the speakers though, I would guess that there is some comfort and satisfaction in having a completely matched system (plus it looks a little nicer, and that goes along way for WAF), and knowing that they integrate well together.

this is a fun discussion, glad to see that we aren't argueing over stupid stuff.

 

[Frank_S]

My 0.02c on the matching speaker debate is based on my own experience, YMMV of course. I wanted the best 2 channel production I could afford and therefore was willing to save money on surrounds. If you read my previous post in this thread you would see my upgrade path through the B&W line.
I have 602S2's as surrounds mated with N804's and HMT2 center. I have no desire for multichannel music but really enjoy music DVD concert material, I own many of those.
I find that the 602S2's work very well with the N804's for my listening preferences, but if you're a multi-channel DVD-A or SACD lover, I would say match your speakers as closely as possible. I have always had separates so I can't comment on a receiver's ability to perform similarly with my current setup.

 

[rodneyH]

SVS

 

[Jeff Kad]

Haven't decided on sub yet, but since I will only use sub on HT with my 9NTs, I'll probably try a HSU VTF2 first and see if that satisfies. Can't do SVS cylinders with kids running around sub. If HSU doesn't work, maybe B&W asw 2000-2500, Velodyne HGS stuff or Paradigm servo (much more money)

 

[Mark C.]

If space is an issue, I'd recommend Sunfire True Sub Jr. It blends very nicely with my CDM1 SEs.

 

[Joseph_W]

I recently purchased an SVS 20-39CS+, heavily based on recommendations from RajeeK and rodneyH. (I never thought to thank them!) I am extremely happy with how they sound with the 7NT.

I agree with the surround matching, not a great place to spend lots of money. I have the CDMSNDs that hang on the wall. Way too much money for the sound, but since you walk through our HT to get to the rest of the house, everyone (and you know who I mean) wanted it to look presentable. They sound just great, though.

Joe

 

[rodneyH]

I didn't know either, maybe Tom and Ron will move us up the "drawing" contest to increase our chances-tic