Which 5 channel amp with these B&W speakers? (1 Viewer)

[Frank_S]

Eric, I have'nt compared Aragon and Classe amps side by side. I actually auditioned the N804's through all Classe gear and they sounded very nice. You really have to be able to audition at home since your room will dictate how well each system ultimately will perform. FWIW, Classe is a canadian company and should you need repair you can bet it will take longer than any Aragon product. Mondial Designs has always been great for customer service if that is of concern. BTW, I do own a Classe SSP-25 pre/pro as well as Aragon amps, and N804's.

 

[Charles Gurganus]

I believe Aragon amps lean toward the bright side and probably wouldn't be the best match for the B&W line. Seems I've heard Parasound amps match well with B&W so you may check out the 2205 amp. I have a Sherbourn 5/1500a amp which has a 5 monoblock design that has done well with my NHT setup. The below link is pretty good.........
http://www.ecoustics.com/Home/Home_A...Multi_Channel/

 

[Tony Cicirello]

B&W and Bryston are great.

I'm running the old 602s S1 with CC6 and a pair of DS6s off the Bryston 9B-ST THX 5x100. Clarity and Power!!!

 

[Frank_S]

QUOTE:

"I believe Aragon amps lean toward the bright side and probably wouldn't be the best match for the B&W line."

Charles, have you actually heard Aragon amps with Nautilus speakers? I actually own Aragon amps and N804's and can assure you that they are not bright, the combination delivers a pleasurable experience offering detail and bass without compromise, IMO. Brightness could also be associated with poor room acoustics.

 

[Marc_E]

I am an 85/15 HT/2 CH. I am still in the planning stages but plan to stick with the NHTM-2, upgrade to the N804's and anthem AVM-20 from onkyo tx-ds989.

I have read on other forums that B&W like a lot of power and really dont show their greatness until driven with a big amp with lots of head room. Any truth?

Marc

 

[ManojM]

I understand that the B&Ws need an amp that is able to provide lots of current to really open them up. Krell amps provides lots of current, but are a little beyond my reach at the moment. I also understand that power also matters for headroom, but it has been brought up here that the Classe works well with 804s even with its conservative rating. Anyone with thoughts on the Sunfire?

 

[Ricky T]

Manoj,

Perhaps you should decide between a new Anthem 5 channel and the 107 pound Aragon 8008x5 for $1849 on ubid.

 

[Scott H]

I believe Aragon amps lean toward the bright side and probably wouldn't be the best match for the B&W line.

There has developed a bit of a myth, I believe by people just repeating a couple other people, that Acurus and Aragon amps are bright. If you A/B these amps with say a Rotel amp, you may percieve that. Acurus and Aragon amps are notoriously revealing and accurate, so much so that they can be negatively accused of being dry to slightly forward. Many, myself included, find Rotel amps warm, and not as precise. Either could be the best match to a particular system. I do know that the entire B&W line is not considered bright, as has been attributed to the Nautilus speaks here, and that Acurus and Aragon amps mated to B&W is commonplace.

In any event, IMHO Acurus or Aragon amps will be more revealing of your source components than Rotel amps. If, for instance, the CD player is a regular Sony or whatever, using the same speakers I think it may very likely sound bright with the Mondial amps because that is the signature of the source. I also think that if you used a more musical CD player, like Rotel or NAD or whatever, it wouldn't.

 

[PomingF]

Rodney, since it's the first time I listened to both (the McIntosh & 800) I thought the combo sounded quite well. A bit warmer than the Bryston even with my tube pre but yet retaining all the details. I didn't get much chance to listen long enough for the combo's bass performance given my two minute unplanned audition. Overall I said the Mac does almost as good as a Krell. The one thing that impressed me most is the heck of an image the combo gives but that probably has as much to do with good room acoustic than anything.
What I took away from the audition is that I will be adding some Sound Anchors stands to mine given the fact that I always find myself sliding down the couch so to get better sound. It so turn out that the 800 is about 2" taller than the 801 making this whole low sitting routine of mine starting to make sense since the Sound Anchors happen to add about two inches in height. That said I dread the idea of having to lift those monsters onto the stands. :frowning:
Cheers.
PF

 

[rodneyH]

about the sunfire.
I have a friend who owns a B&W dealer that carries Classe, Rotel (surprise), Sim Audio, MArantz, citation, aragon, theta, and a few other...The sunfire rep came in and brought an amp so they could use it for a week and maybe become a Sunfire dealer, He got the thing and couldn't believe how light wt it was, he said it felt like a cheep receiver, he listened to it and it didn't have the same impact that he got from the aragon, theta, sim and citation,a nd said that if he were a consumer, there is NO way in hell he would buy it over a rotel (for teh $$). He decided to look inside to see what was in the thing, he said that he couldn't believe all of the cheap parts and all the corners that bob carver and sunfire cut, he simply gave the amp bad and said "no thank you". That is the ONLY experience I have had with Sunfire.
I am currently running a Marsh a400s (2X200 w) amp (the thing is HUGE) from www.marshsounddesign.com I got a great deal on it (that is the only reason I am running a $2300 2 channel amp with a $2000 pair of B&W CDM7s), I am amazed, I blows away my rotel.
As far as B&Ws being power hungry, that is what I have always heard, at that same freinds dealer, he had an aragon amp hooked up to the cheaper B&W 602s, and I couldn't believe what I was hearing out of a $600 speaker, I was amazed, so I would think that it benifited from the great amp and front end piece.

 

[Sihan Goi]

Well, which amp did the Sunfire rep provide your friend with? I'm quite surprised that he'd say that. Of course, compared to Class, Sim Audio, Citation, Aragon and Theta, the Sunfire might be lacking in finesse. However, I'm under the impression that the Sunfire Cinema(and the Signature) grand is quite a bit better than the flagship Rotel multi-channel amp, the RMB-1095. Before you brand me as anti-Rotel or pro-Sunfire, I own a Rotel RMB-1095, and love it to death since it fits my budget and performs extremely admirably. If I had more money though, I think I'd consider the Sunfire, along with the Cinepro and Earthquake Cinenova. If I had even more money, the I'd consider Class, Sim Audio, Aragon, Theta, Krell, Bryston, etc...Home Theater Hifi has reviewed the Sunfire Cinema Grand and Cinema Grand Signature and have pictures of the innards, and IIRC they gave it quite a good review.

 

[Charles Gurganus]

Frank, you are right about the Aragon being system dependant (isn't everything). The dealer that sold me the Sherbourn told me the Aragon could be too bright (he sells both) for my setup. The Sony TA-E9000es is known as a very detailed preamp (can be bright). Couple that with an Aragon and NHT speakers and I think I would have a bit too much of a good thing (detail). I am sure the Aragon is a great amp. I was thinking the Nautalas line was considered similar to NHT and that means a lot of detail.

Basically, I think it is a good thing to NOT have 3 bright main components in the chain (preamp, amp and speakers). Same thing can be said for warm components. Of course, what is bright for one setup could be considered neutral for someone else. I think my main chain consists of 1 bright (e9000es preamp) component, and 2 neutrals (NHT and Sherbourn) but I like this setup. The room setup is probably the biggest factor in peoples perception of what is bright vs warm vs neutral. My room setup is not bright so my setup works well. I was just concerned the original poster may have been heading down a all bright to neutral setup which may or may not be acceptable depending on other factors (like his room or preference toward warm or bright sound etc).

 

[rodneyH]

sihan, I am not sure the exact model, but I would think that it would be stupid for him to drop off something that wasn't close to their very best. As far as the Rotel VS sunfire, he didn't come out and just say "the rotel is better than the sunfire" but more the fact that for a mid-fi anp the Rotel provides a better bang for the buck, and if you want to step up to the real high end stuff, don't look at sunfire. Like I said, I didn't do the test and I don't even know were the sunfires were priced (from you post it sounds like it is between the Rotel and the super high end stuff, so perhaps it is a good option in that range), what I was trying to say is that if one is using B&W 802s, don't "short" yourself and the system. After recently purchasing a new amp myself, I am under the belief that it does indeed make a diffference, and If I notice it on a B&W cdm7NT system (going from Rotel to Marsh), then certainly an individual using 802s (with probably better cable and compnents than mine) would certainly hear a difference.

 

[chris c]

Donning flame-proof suit

I would suggest getting a 5-channel Theta Dreadnaught. If this is too expensive, then try to find one used. About a year ago I was in your predicament (substitute Proacs for B&Ws). I went through a number of 2/3 channel combinations, including Odyssey Stratos but was not satisfied with any of them. Then I auditioned a Theta Intrepid (less powerful version of the Dreadnaught). That's all she wrote. Your B&Ws deserve better than Rotel or Parasound or Sunfire. Seriously. Classe' is definitely a step above these, and is also a good match with B&W, so you might also look into these - but they aren't as good as the Theta IMO (I have heard them both on many systems).

 

[Dean M]

Amp 5! Amp 5!
just my $.02

 

[Sihan Goi]

rodney, I tend to agree with you that the Rotel 1095 is a better price/performance buy than the Sunfire. Its attention to detail and usage of quality parts exceed many in its class, and even some beyond its class. It has a dual 1.2KVA torroidal transformer, which makes 2.4KVA. This is more than the Sherbourn 5/1500A, Parasound HCA-2205A, which both have 2.0KVA. In fact, its even more than the Theta Dreadnaught! It also has 8x22000ufarads of smoothing capacitance, which makes 0.176farads, compared to 0.10farads for the Sherbourn, 0.15farads for the Parasound and around the same for the Aragon 8008x5.

Also, rated power output goes from 200W@8ohms to 330@4ohms, compared to the 200W to 300W jump for the Sherbourn and the 220W to 300W jump for the Parasound. In fact, I just read the Audio Magazine review that measured the power output at clipping(1% THD)1095 at 285W@8ohm and 500W@4ohms, which makes the 1095's rated power output really conservative. I'm not sure if the Sherbourn or Parasound can muster this kind of power - I used to think the 3 as just about equal in performance.

As for the Sunfire, while I don't really like it(its light, construction isn't very good, and its front faceplate isn't really my cup of tea), I haven't auditioned it before, but I've read good reviews of it. I consider it to be in the same league as the Earthquake Cinenova Grand and Cinepro 3K6SE/3K6SE Gold - they're all "muscle" amps with huge power output. IIRC the price range of these 3 amps is between $3000-$5000, significantly higher than the earlier 3 I mentioned, which are all below $2000.

Going a step higher, perhaps the highest level for multi-channel amps, you'll have the Theta Dreadnaught, Krell Theater Amplifier Standard(and KAV1500), BAT VK6200, Classe CAV500/CAV180, SimAudio Titan and perhaps the Pass Labs X5.

 

[rodneyH]

I agree with what you said, also, Like you said the sunfire is a big $$ amp that has a box built like a cheap receiver, when you compare some of the constuction of the other amps (even the Rotel, parasound, etc.... at lower prices) compared to the sunfire, there is NO comparison, and the big $$ amps are many times mechined out of sold aluminum/billet, etc...certainly the construction doesn't make an amp sound better, but it gives you a decent idea of how a company "cares" for their products. I actually sort of like the face plates, but that alone is hardly a reason to buy one.

 

[Justin Doring]

"Classe' is definitely a step above these, and is also a good match with B&W, so you might also look into these - but they aren't as good as the Theta IMO (I have heard them both on many systems)."

If you're comparing the Dreadnaught to the CAV-75 and CAV-180. I'd agree with you, but the CAV-500 handily trounces the Dreadnaught (of course it's also a bit more expensive).

Regarding Sunfire amps, I've heard and seen them, and I wouldn't think twice about purchasing a B&K, Rotel, Acurus, NAD, etc. over the Sunfire.

The more I think about it, the more I think the CAV-75 is probably the way to go for your system.

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"I agree with the other posters in that the Rotel is not at the level of the 804's. However, I do have two questions for you:"

Guys,

Check out this month's Stereophile mag. They audition the Rotel 1080 with a pair of Revel Salons and a pair of the B&W Signature 800s...speakers well out of the Rotel's class. However, the reviewer's findings with the Rotel/B&W combination are quite positive...to the extent that the author talks about making the 1080 a permenant fixture in his rack down the road. With the Revels, there were some low-volume level negatives, but once he turned up the volume, the 1080 did a marvelous job...with the B&Ws, the low-level volume problems went away and he was very much surprised at the abilities of the 1080.

I know your looking at the 1095, a different amp than the 1080...but I also just went through the amp buying march myself and ended up with a 1090 for my mains and will be adding a 1095 when budget allows for the rest of the speakers. I compared the 1090 to Mac, Krell, Sunfire, Marantz, and others. I'm not necessarily a "golden ear" audiophile, but I was hard pressed to notice the differences between the Rotel and Krell or Mac. I, too, am using B&W speakers and had every intention of going with the Krell amplifier. After many hours of auditioning in store and in my house...the Rotel became my choice. Another helpful piece of information...if you are looking for Rotel amps on the used market, they are very hard to find. No one wants to get rid of them. Check Audiogon and Ebay. They are just not available on the second hand market...which tells me that they are of high value and performance, even after years of use. I am stuck between Nautilus 802s and 803s for my mains as I'm upgrading from the 600 series. All of my auditions were done with 804s and 802s.

IMO, the Rotel amps are a VERY good match even for the Nautilus line. The Stereophile tests done on the 1080 were showing a near doubling down of wattage at 4 ohms from 8. A very interesting article to read after I made my purchase.

Jeremy

 

[AjayM]

Are you opposed to going used? I didn't see any kind of budget listed either. Anyways, I wouldn't worry to much about balanced inputs, unless you are going to be running wire around the room, for short distances I think you aren't going to find a whole lot of difference between them.

All of the above are good recommendations for sure, I've heard B&W's (803's and 804's) hooked up Krell KAV series amps, and to the larger 300cx amps and I was very impressed with the sound of them. I think you'll find that you'd be happier with a higher-current type amp than just a pure power amp, something like the Aragon's (or Theta's or Classe'). BTW the Aragon (not the newest model's which are THX I believe) were designed by Dan D’Agostino (CEO and Chief Engineer at Krell now), so they have an excellent pedigree. Theta's are very expensive, and have a very good reputation (plus the benefits of zero negative feedback), and are hard to find used.

But of course let your ears decide for yourself, see if your dealer will let you audition some stuff at home.

Andrew