Which 12" woofer should I purchase??

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by SteveSpoon, Feb 13, 2002.

  1. SteveSpoon

    SteveSpoon Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello:

    This is my first post (just found this forum, wow, lots of good info and people here!!) and have been lurking for a couple days until I got fully brought into the system so I could post a question. Anyway, just wanted to say hello to start.

    Here's a little background with what I would like to do:

    I would like to build a decent subwoofer. I've got a pretty good amp (Yamaha M-80, 250 watts/channel into 8ohms) sitting around with nothing to do. Would like to add some low end to my music system. I was going to originally purchase a SVS sub, but after further consideration, decided I would like to build one instead.

    I'm fairly handy with the power tools, so that part of it shouldn't be too bad. Plus, I enjoy building things, anyway. To be honest, I didn't realize a person could build a great sounding sub for so little money (if one has the patience to put it together correctly).

    Don't really know where to start, so would like to just ask a few general questions:

    1. I've been able to find one good set of plans for building a sub (85L Shiva Design), but are there other plans out there?

    2. Which driver would meet my needs? Would like to stay under 150 bucks for the driver. The only two drivers I know much about at all are the SVS driver (about 150 bucks and made in the U.S.A.) and the Shiva Mark 3 for about 125 bucks. Once again, are there other drivers out there I should consider?

    Guess that's all I think to ask for now. Hope somebody can offer a little guidance. Thank you.

    Steve
     
  2. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2001
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've requested a moderator to move this post to the DIY/Advanced section. That is where all the build your own sub discussion happens.

    SVS doesn't sell their drivers seperately unless you own of of their subs and the driver you have is damaged or defective.

    The two favorite 12" drivers in that price range are the Shiva and the Dayton 12" DVC.

    Before I or anyone in the DIY advanced section makes any recommendations it would be helpful to have some more information. Right now we know you want to stay at $150 or less for the driver. But do you have any size constraints for the enclosure? What are you going to use it for, mainly movies, mainly music, even split of both? What does your room look like (is that likely to change any time soon)?
     
  3. SteveSpoon

    SteveSpoon Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    0
    My system will be permanently set up in my basement (working as hard as possible to get it finished!!). Will have some type of thin (for lack of a better word, kinda like an indoor/outdoor type since I expect rough use with 3 young kids) carpet. Walls are already done, insulated with paneling covering the insulation. Running to get lights tomorrow, but the ceiling will be your typical ceiling tiles.

    Basement area (or how much my wife will let me have) will be approximately 20'x20'.....this is still up for negotiation. I picked her up a nice Valentine's present, so hope this will help with what I want to do downstairs!! Politics are everywhere.

    So basically, I do have quite a bit of room to work with.

    Question: Will I get better base out of a big tube style sub, or your typical "cube" style sub? I'm assuming the tube style, but I've assumed other things and got into trouble.

    Thanks.

    Steve
     
  4. SteveSpoon

    SteveSpoon Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    0
    I forgot to answer your question.....system will be about an even split between movies and music. Maybe just a tad more music. Thanks again.

    Steve
     
  5. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Steve,

    The popularity of using tubes for subwoofers is largely due to their ease of construction. If built properly, any shape enclosure will be equally good as another. I also agree with Dustin that the Shiva or Dayton DVC 12" drivers are your best bet. There are a few others but these two are the most popular.

    In general, building a box will be cheaper as MDF is only around $18-$20 a sheet. Sonotube prices vary greatly, with some folks having to buy full 12' lengths for $80-$100 and you still end up having to buy MDF for the endcaps.

    Is there a size limitation for the enclosure itself?

    Brian
     
  6. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2001
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Edit: Damnnit Brian, you beat me :p)

    Ok, now we're getting somewhere.

    First of all, don't make the room 20*20 (I hope you meant your area of a larger room is 20*20 and not that 20*20 walls are up). Having two identical room modes is very bad for a subs response (if it results in a null you're in trouble, if it results in a peak I guess that could just be solved with an EQ, but that is more money). Anyways if there are still some walls to go up, head over to the Home Theater Construction section of the site for some tips on room dimensions and treatments to improve the sound.

    Next, there is no sonic difference between a tube and cube sub. It's just easier to build a tube sub. And when you make them really big tube subs are light enough to move more easily (some of the big DIY subs made here weigh in the more than 200 pounds; one 24ft^3 dual tempest beast weighed in at almost 450 pounds).

    For 50/50 music movies a safe bet is an EBS vented allignment for whatever driver you choose. In the case of a Shiva or Dayton 12" this would mean a net 120-150L enclosure tuned to 16-18hz with a single flared 4" port or twin flared 3" ports (tube or cube your choice).

    A Adire Tempest is under your $150 dollar price point as well. An EBS vented for it will be a net 300-340L enclosure tuned to 15-17hz with a 6" port.

    So it will essentially come down to how big of an enclosure you want. If you can live with a huge sub, the Tempest is easily the way to go for your price point.

    If it needs to be smaller or you'd like the sub to have more punch and the extreme low end isn't as important then some more discussion has to happen.

    Also what is your amps output into 4oms, and is it stable at 4 ohms?
     
  7. SteveSpoon

    SteveSpoon Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    0
    The actual room size is much larger than 20x20........I'm only stating the space my wife will actually let me use. The basement is basically open right now. Eventually, on the far end of the basement (on the other side of the proposed home theater location), I will probably put a wall up so I don't have to look at my wife doing the laundry!! The dreaded evil eye is cast upon me if I'm fluffing off too much, not helping!! Get the guilt trip every time!!

    My amp (Yamaha M-80) I bought new during my "glory days" over in Germany back in the mid-80's. The manual says it is rated at 250 watts .003% THD 8 ohms, 290 watts .007% THD 6 ohms, and 330 watts .02% THD 4 ohms. It has outlets on the back for 3 pairs of speakers. Weight on the amp is 50 lbs. I think it will make a great sub amp (providing at the given point in time I can figure out how to hook it all up). I really like the amp and want to get it back into the system making contributions ever since the Technics SA-DX950 took over. I'm not sold on this receiver yet, but then again, that's another chapter in the book. Seems pretty sad to have my M-80, C-80, T-85, and DSP-E492 take a back seat to a 150 dollar receiver.....naaahhhh, my wife didn't have anything to do with it. If I said she did (and I went along with it), you guys would call me whipped!! Politics. Rest assured, it's only a matter of time before "the boys in black" rise up once again out of the abiss. Just need to plan my move out.

    Anyway, I'm leaning towards building the Shiva Vented 85L box because it's basically the only set of plans I can find. If you know of anything else out there that has the detail that these plans have, please let me know. Thanks.

    Steve
     
  8. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    I particularly like the looks of the Shiva 142.5L enclosure's response. Also, using Unibox I've noticed that the Dayton 12" DVC can drop in that same enclosure without any modifications. I have the PE driver, amp, and 4" Aeroport sitting in my spare bedroom just waiting for this enclosure.
    Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention a square room being a big no-no! Thanks for pointing that out Dustin!
    One advantage of a heavy box: Your wife won't be moving it without your help![​IMG] Oh, and it's easier to make it look like a piece of furniture as well!
    Brian
     
  9. SteveSpoon

    SteveSpoon Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh man, now I better go back and look at the big box from Shiva!!!! And I thought I had it all figured out. Good idea about building a big box and the wife not moving it!! Very critical. Knowing my wife, if she can move it, she will......and would probably end up in the closet. Women.

    Steve
     
  10. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    1,073
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good advice has already been given here but I would like to just say to also look at the Tempest driver from Adire. At 15" and $150 it is a very nice driver for both home theater and music applications.

    Kyle Richardson

    Acoustic Visions
     
  11. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2001
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Adire has 9 detailed plans for the Shiva and 9 more for the Tempest on their site.
    http://www.adireaudio.com/Tech%20Papers/shiva_apps.htm
    http://www.adireaudio.com/Tech%20Pap...mpest_apps.htm
    There are links to 3 PDF files in each of these links (sealed, vented and passive radiator designs). Each PDF file contains 3 designs.
    Then there is also this page, some with better instructions than others on how to build their particular design.
    http://members.tripod.com/~terrycthe...um/page12.html
    One of the best for the tube style is Patrick Sun's site. His SonosubII would be the one to follow:
    http://www.io.com/~patman/sunosub2.html
    Then there is the link in my signature. I don't have as many pictures as Patrick, but I think I made up for it with text :p)
    One channel of your amp would be oodles of power for any of the the drivers mentioned so far in this thread. If you wanted, since it is a two channel amp you could have some real fun. How about a 500L tube style sub with twin 6" ports tuned to 16hz and twin Tempests [​IMG]
    The big sonotubes may be lighter (50-90 pounds usually), but I doubt your wife would be able to move one. They are huge, so they are very akward to handle.
     
  12. SteveSpoon

    SteveSpoon Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh man, that's what I was hoping for....lots of good help!! But, as luck would have it, I'm hearing a distant voice in the backgroud[​IMG]...."Steve, the ceiling fan is dripping again". Dang. Guess I have to do the job right this time. Darn condensation. Guess I better go fix it before the whole ceiling gets wet and I get to repair the entire ceiling[​IMG]
    Thanks again for all the help and I'll have to check in later. Darn job and "honey do list" always get in the way of my fun!![​IMG]
    Steve
     

Share This Page