Where's the bass? (1 Viewer)

[Neil_R]

Hello, I recently upgraded my 5.1 system to a 7.1 system. I re-ran the Audyssey Test on my Onkyo TX-NR807 Receiver. While running the test, I set the knobs on the subwoofer with the gain half way and the frequency at the highest setting (180Hz).

After it was done, suddenly, I have practically no bass on my system! My video games and movies sound so flat now.

I read about cross over frequencies, but I'm not quite sure if I fully understand the concept. I played around with the crossover settings on the receiver for the front speakers and the LFE, but it's not making a difference.

Can someone help me restore the bumping bass effects of my home theater system?

Here are the settings:

ON the subwoofer (10" Dayton) knobs in the back: The Gain it set half way. The frequency is set to the highest number at 180Hz.

Receiver: Crossover for front speakers: 150Hz, for center 40Hz, for the surrounds 80Hz (THX) , for surround backs 40 Hz., for the subwoofer 80Hz (THX).

 

[Mark-P]

I’ve never had a receiver that let you set the crossover on the subwoofer. You should turn off the crossover on the sub (set to large?). Setting it at 80hz is filtering out all frequencies below 80hz.

Also, are your front speakers teeny-tiny? Why else are you setting the crossover so high on those? The bigger the speaker the lower the crossover frequency.

 

[Neil_R]

Thanks for the reply!

Clarification:

“LPF on LFE” is set to 80Hz.(THX), not “subwoofer” as I originally wrote.

Finally, my front speakers are not tiny, but aren’t massive either. Attached are the specs for the front speakers.

What do you recommend?

 

[xx Brian xx]

LPF on LFE should be set to 120 in most cases. I agree that 150 is really high for fronts. I also think 40 is too low, there is nothing left to send to the sub. Some sub companies recommend setting the crossover to 80 across the board, try that and see if you get bass back.
Also, make sure all speakers are set to SMALL.

Brian

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

By most accounts, speakers with 5-1/4” woofers are considered small. A 120-150 Hz crossover frequency is probably about right. If you have the same or similar speakers for the front and surrounds, they should get the same crossover frequency.

Don’t feel you have to live with the Audyssey subwoofer settings. You can easily increase the sub’s gain knob to get back the bass you want. Or increase the sub output in the receiver’s menu.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[David Willow]

Keep in mind that Audyssey is measuring the performance of your speakers "in your room"... Location of the speakers (in a cabinet, close to a wall, in the middle of empty space, etc) will have a big impact. My guess is your mains are away from the wall while the other similar speakers are close to (or on) a wall??? And I agree - those speakers are probably not going to dig very low so this may indeed be the correct measurement.

Also, placement of the mic is important.If done incorrectly you will get very bad results. Check out my sig for an older (but still relevant) guide.

Finally, many folks complain about lack of bass after running Audyssey because they are so used to overblown bass that when it is set properly they think it is wrong. If you prefer overblown, don't be afraid to crank it up.

One other thought.... Did you also move the subwoofer when you changed your setup?

 

[Todd Erwin]

Finally, many folks complain about lack of bass after running Audyssey because they are so used to overblown bass that when it is set properly they think it is wrong. If you prefer overblown, don't be afraid to crank it up.

Reminds me of the time I was hired to checkout a home theater setup and why they weren't getting "theater-like" sound. They had hierd the cable guy that lived down the street to initially set it up. Never mind that he wired the HDMI's so that the TV was the switching device rather than the receiver, none of the speakers, including the sub, were connected to the proper speaker connections on the back of the receiver. The cable guy had wired the sub into the two surround speaker hookups. After I got everything connected properly and ran Audyssey, the son comes in and says "How come the sub isn't working anymore?" I had to explain that the subwoofer is used to emphasize low-end sounds like explosions and also help compensate for bass-starved speakers.

 

[Mark-P]

Thanks for the reply!

Clarification:

“LPF on LFE” is set to 80Hz.(THX), not “subwoofer” as I originally wrote.

Finally, my front speakers are not tiny, but aren’t massive either. Attached are the specs for the front speakers.

What do you recommend?

Ah, Low Pass Frequency on Low Frequency effects channel. I've never had a receiver that had that option. As they said above, this should be set at 120. It adjusts what high frequencies can get to your sub. Since it sounds like you have bookshelf type speakers that don't have the ability to produce much bass, I'd recommend 80hz to 120hz crossovers for all speakers. And as mentioned above, all speakers should be set to "small".

 

[Neil_R]

Thanks everyone for your response!

It turns out that the gain was too low. I turned up the gain on my subwoofer a little past the halfway point and then increased it to +8db on the receiver. The bass is back!

I still don't fully how the receiver decides where to send the bass frequencies.

Here are three examples (I'll only use front speakers to keep it easy):

Example 1:

Front speakers set at: 150 Hz.
LPE on LFE set at: 80 Hz.

Example 2:

Front speakers set at: 80 Hz.
LPE on LFE set at: 120 Hz.

Example 3:

Front speakers set at: 80 Hz
LPE on LFE set at: 80 Hz.

Help me understand, for each example, can anyone explain what the crossover point is so I know which frequencies are sent to the speakers and subwoofer?

 

[David Willow]

Keep the LPE at 120. All is does is control the ".1" channel which sends sound up to 120 Hz. This is not adjustable in most AVR's.

In your first example, the AVR will send sound starting around 150 Hz and lower to the sub and the mains will only play sounds around 150 Hz and higher. In the next 2 examples the cut off is around 80 Hz.

There's no point sending anything to the speakers that they cannot play back. If they cannot play anything below 150 Hz and you set the AVR to 80 Hz, everything between 80 and 150 will be missing. Also, Audyssey will not have corrected the sound (not that it really matters if you can't hear it ).

The numbers are not "hard" cutoffs as there is always a slope but it probably drops off pretty quickly. Again, assuming the mic was angled properly and clear of surfaces that could cause errors, it is best to keep them set at 150. You could experiment with placement and see if you can get them lower (closer to the wall or maybe in a corner). Or just leave them as is and see how it sounds. If you like it keep it. If not, adjust it until you do.