where to find fsv Glue

Discussion in 'Home Theater Projects' started by Rich-R, Feb 10, 2004.

  1. Rich-R

    Rich-R Extra

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    I would like to try some FSV glue without ordering a whole gallon of the stuff. Does anyone know of any stores that sell less than a gallon at a time? I will be using it to attach some NBL Cherry to mdf. Thanks, rich.
     
  2. Dave Poehlman

    Dave Poehlman Producer

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    This site has a 16oz bottle for $6.99.

    I just googled FSV and came up with it.. there may be cheaper places out there.
     
  3. Rich-R

    Rich-R Extra

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    Thanks Dave, I found that as well but they want almost as much for shipping as they do for the glue. I may end up going with them but was hoping for something more reasonable. rich
     
  4. Dave Poehlman

    Dave Poehlman Producer

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    Whoops! Didn't look at the shipping.. sorry. :b
     
  5. Rich-R

    Rich-R Extra

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    Shucks, I just ordered my veneer from them yesterday and did not see it on there web site. I just checked and it still is not on there. I will give them a call this morning and hopefully my order has not gone out. Thanks Brett.
     
  6. Rich-R

    Rich-R Extra

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    just got off the phone with tape ease and they do not carry fsv, only hot melt glue. rich
     
  7. John E Janowitz

    John E Janowitz Second Unit

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    Very few places carry the FSV glue. It's a fairly new product to use. There really aren't many good options for veneering paper backed veneer if you don't have a vaccuum press.

    The FSV works good, but does require more time and labor. I get mine from www.veneersystems.com Talk to John Ersing. He may be able to sell it in small quantity, but I'm not sure. It is far superior to contact cement for veneering.

    For those who still think contact cement is good for veneering, check out the following threads on the woodweb forum and see what the pro's say about it:

    http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forum...pl?read=288277

    http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forum...pl?read=305722

    I'm currently trying to find an option that is as fast as using contact cement but holds well. The contact cement to put the veneer down with conversion varnish as a clearcoat seems to be the most problematic, and that's what I use. It often bubbles right away. I have found a good syringe to inject glue to fix the bubbles, but that takes a lot of time. So far I haven't come up with a good option. There are a few catalyzed contact adhesives out there that may work. I have the 3M rep coming next week to demo some stuf for me to find out.

    John
     
  8. George W

    George W Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm glad this topic came up, because I hadn't heard of fsv before. Sounds like a good alternative for contact cement that doesn't require a press. Let us know how your project turns out.

    George
     
  9. Rich-R

    Rich-R Extra

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    George, I will be sure to let everyone know how it turns out. I ended up going for the small bottle from woodworkers supply and also got some sponge brushes to keep the shipping% down. I figured that if I am going to spend that much in shipping I might as well order something else. Maybe that is why shipping is so high, to get you to order something else as well. Rich
     
  10. Bob K

    Bob K Stunt Coordinator

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    Jeez, I don't even know what fsv glue is! I'll have to look into it.

    For applying 10 mil paperbacked veneer, I use yellow glue and an iron. Works just fine.

    Tempest Construction Pix (including veneering w/ yellow glue and iron, no press): http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/m...view_album.php
     
  11. MikeSRC

    MikeSRC Second Unit

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    For the yellow glue and iron application, how much time do you have to iron it and at what setting did you have the iron?
     
  12. John E Janowitz

    John E Janowitz Second Unit

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    BobK,

    How did that turn out with the yellow glue and iron? In this post here: http://www.woodweb.com/forum_fdse_fi...er/312237.html

    John VanBrussel states that the iron method with they yellow glue has a negative effect on the glue bond.

    The ideal glue for veneering would have an initial tack like a contact cement to hold things together, but dry hard like a resin or epoxy after it cures. I spent about 10 hours so far this week searching for something. I talked to reps from 3M, Titebond, Loctite, and about half a dozen other glue companies, but nobody seems to have something along those lines. I looked into hotmelts, spray adhesives, resins, epoxys, and nothing really does what I'd like. The search continues....

    John
     
  13. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

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    Hi John,
    We use a product from TiteCo. It is a spray adhesive. More like a pressure sensitive adhesive than a contact cement. It comes in a 30 lb cannister with its own spray gun. I still have some at the shop for on site jobs. Cost is about $300 a cannister and the gun and hose is ~$100.Does not creep like contact cement. Dries hard and works fast. Some nasty chemicals, tho. I think Formica picked it up and may be distributing it under the Tacc brand. I'll take a look tomorrow and let you know. In fact, I think I have another gun and hose laying around if you want to try it. I think you can get it in smaller cannisters, too.

    Pete
     
  14. John E Janowitz

    John E Janowitz Second Unit

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    Hi Pete,

    That sounds like it may work. I'm not really concerned with small canisters. Large is fine as long as it has a shelf life of a few months or more.

    I looked up TACC and found the following page. http://www.taccint.com/hpl.html According to their literature though it's intended for high pressure laminates but doesn't mention anything about veneer. I do see the Sta-Put stuff on a few veneering sites. I think this may be a good lead for me to look into.

    John
     
  15. Bob K

    Bob K Stunt Coordinator

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    Mike and John,

    Bear in mind that I'm really a novice, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. Having never done any woodworking in my life, I took a "Woodworking 101" course at my local Y in the Fall of 2002. The instructor, an experienced professional cabinetmaker, was the person who showed us the yellow glue and iron trick. He said that was how he routinely applied veneer to his work. He actually did it with raw veneer but said it worked equally well with paperbacked. As he explained it, yellow and white glue are "thermoplastic", that is they remelt when heated. What he suggested, and what I have followed, is to dampen the face of the veneer with a damp sponge, then apply glue to both the substrate and the back of the veneer and let it dry to quite tacky or drier, say an hour. MDF really soaks up glue, so I slather it on fairly liberally (I think the pictures show this). Place veneer on substrate. It may stick a little, but you can lift it up and re-place if necessary -- a huge advantage over contact cement.

    Using an iron set to the cotton setting, start ironing from the center. I have not had a problem with scorching. Just keep the iron moving steadily, pressing down firmly. Remember, since the glue will re-melt if reheated, if you start too quickly, or miss a spot, you can always go back a little slower.

    Tempest Construction Pix: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/m...view_album.php
     
  16. Pete Mazz

    Pete Mazz Supporting Actor

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    John,
    Looking at some literature, it looks like it's the Conbond C690 and the non-flam C697 under the Tacc name.

    The stuff we have at the shop was branded under the Formica and Pionite names, but is the same stuff. Stay away from the Sta-Put. We tried it years ago and it's not that well suited for laminates. It was originally used extensively in the upholstery industry. It just doesn't have the bond strength that is needed for laminates or veneer.

    The Conbond product is ideal for veneer. It sprays very uniformly and lays very flat. The bond is extremely strong. Very short working time, tho, so you have to move quickly. A good thing for production! If you decide to try it and want a gun, let me know.

    Pete
     
  17. Hank Frankenberg

    Hank Frankenberg Cinematographer

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    I discovered FSV 2 years ago as a post on a pro woodworker forum. I bought 2 gallons and tried it. It works. The only drawback is that it has a very short open time. BUT, unlike contact cement, if you misalign your veneer and lay it down, you can reposition it and as we all know, with contact cement, once you make "contact" with the cabinet, the veneer is in that position for the rest of your natural life. The FSV was expensive with the shipping charges. I'll try to look up the old invoice.
     

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