Where can I find someone in the Denver area to optimize my sub placement and eq?

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Todd smith, Oct 17, 2005.

  1. Todd smith

    Todd smith Supporting Actor

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    After posting my original thread about trying to get rid of a null, I realize bass is a complicated thing and is different for each individual room. Who could I hire and trust that they know what they are doing to come over and assess my situation so I can get good bass at my listening position. Can I hire someone to come over and tell me whether 2 subs would work better or eq, etc.... I have no interest in learning about all the different bass theories I simply want good bass at my iistening spot. Who can I hire(if anybody) to come to my house and do this for me? I have tried many things myself from different placements, doing graphs of my freq range, bass traps, etc and I am burned out. I want someone who knows what the hell they are doing and it is not me. What are my options?
     
  2. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    I think there are some folks in your neck of the woods over at AVScience. My mind is drawing a blank on the names though. Make a post in a couple of the forums over there. Out of curiousity, what are you prepared to spend?
     
  3. John S

    John S Producer

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    Hmm, I do this sort of thing for people.
    My experience is in professional sound for recording studio rooms.

    I wouldn't charge for just this specific issue most likely, so if you just want to take a two heads may be better than one approach to it, we may be able to lick the issue.



    I'm a little vague as to what your not happy about?

    You plot it and it just isn't flat? It is all over the place? Just an irritating bump or null or two? Just low output?

    What make and model is your current sub? Room size?

    What is your real goal? Strong output and flat response at the listening sweet spot? Are you up for room sound treatments?

    I have to warn you, in stuborn rooms, I usually just suggest way overkill sub-age. Has always solved the issue worst case, when all else fails to yield results. Sort of I can't figure it out, so I am going with brute force to get the output I desire. [​IMG]
     
  4. Loreni

    Loreni Extra

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    I have similar problem though i did learn about acustic treatments.
    I think the best thing to do first is to get a mic and an app and measure 20Hz-20KHz, thats full range and see where the dips and boosts are.
    Than you try to flat it with acustic treatments.

    I havent done anything yet, so i dont know which app etc....
     
  5. John S

    John S Producer

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    yes, I think he needs to treat his room. But then again, no clue, because we don't know what the real issue is.

    Low output can nearly always be solved by the brute force approach. [​IMG]

    Now flatness, spikes and nulls... This is where some room treatments can go a long way and is absolutely needed if he is attempting to get +/- 3db from 20hz to 20khz or even lower on the low end. I have not found a room yet that produces that sort of flatness without lots of sound treatment.
     
  6. Todd smith

    Todd smith Supporting Actor

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    Thanks for the response guys. Let me give you some more info. I am in a 12x17 fully enclosed room with 7' ceiling. I have realtrap broadband bass traps in the four corners of my room as well as 2 on the side walls near my screen which is on one of the 12' walls. I also have 2 high freq traps to treat first reflection points on the side walls. I have not done any charts above 100Hz because my test disc only goes to 98Hz, but to my ears the traps helped the sound out quite a bit they just didnt help my big problem which is a null in the 40-60Hz range at my prefered seat (center cushion on couch). If I put the sub in the rear of the room it takes care of the null but I now have a null in the 15-25 range. The big problem with the rear placement is I dont like the sub there. I know you should not be able to tell where the sub is located, which I cant in the front, but when it is in the rear I can tell it is in the rear sometimes. I also like having the sub in the front corner because I have a peak in the 15-35 range which I actually like for movies and I dont have that in the rear. I have optimized each spot to the best of my knowledge with an spl meter and avia (spl,phase,etc...). My other equipment is a B&K ref50, sherbourne 2100 amp, Denon 3910, SVS pb12/2 ultra and jbl s-38's all around with the s-center for a 7.1 setup.

    I am open at this point to another sub, more acoustic treatment or whatever else that will help me attain my goal of strong bass response with no major nulls at my sweet spot which as I said is center cushion. Obviously I still want the other seats to sound good to, but the center seat is my priority. I have my one-band eq set so it flattens out the bump in the 15-35 range for concerts and music, but for movies I usually turn it off and take advantage of the natural room gain in this area which I prefer for movies.

    Let me know what you guys think or if you need more info.

    Chu, I would ideally like to spend as little as possible since I am not a rich man so to speak[​IMG] It has taken me a long time to get all this gear and to this point. Overall I am happy, but I feel like I am not getting the bass response I should be getting at the listening postion.

    John, I appreciate your offer and am open to any advice you could give. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I have done about all I know to do. My thought now is to experiment with a second sub. What do you think?

    Thanks again guys and let me know...
     
  7. John S

    John S Producer

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    OK, I am in the Denver area. (Lakewood)
    I could bring a 15" Velodyne over for testing purposes.
    We could have a sort of sub shoot out even. This weekend even, if your up for it?

    So what happens if you simply run your sub well hot? I mean turning up the volume? Your saying no matter what at reference type levels your just not getting the impact you think you should right?


    You have some room issues, but I'd be afraid to mess around to much because you indicate you like the natural bump. Accoustical panels on the walls can help if your just getting cancellation effect at the sweet spot, but would also kill your bump. My fear with attempting to sound treat further is it won't actually fix the issue you want to fix. No real gaurantees, you know, even it it actually helps on the meter.

    A second sub is virtually a lock on giving you more overall impact.

    I use dual 15" subs, I don't think I could go back to one now, tell you the truth.

    I pitty the sound guy that takes this on as a paid job.

    :wink:
     
  8. Greg Bright

    Greg Bright Second Unit

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    Moving your sofa just a few inches forward or backwards may solve your null problem if related to room length. If its related to room width sit a little bit off center. An inch or two can make a world of difference. Also do you hear the null or just measure it?

    Sounds like you've gone to great lengths to get great bass. But true nulls are black holes. One cannot bring that sound back. However they are very narrow, not "40-60Hz" as you describe.

    The sub you have with the room size (sealed) that you have should equal killer bass. Dial it in, dude.
     
  9. John S

    John S Producer

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    I have seen rooms where for whatever reason, all bass output can be diminished at various seating positions, usually those towards the center of the room. The only way to really deal with it is to treat all the walls. You can gain output by adding subs as well, but the bass is still being cancelled out somehow, you just are starting with a lot more, so you still end up with a lot more.
     
  10. Todd smith

    Todd smith Supporting Actor

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    Hey John I would love to have you come over with your sub. I would welcome any advice as well as I am fairly new to this stuff. I cant do it this weekend as I am having 15 tons of rock dumped on my driveway friday evening. Sat and Sun will be spent spreading rock and new grass. How about the following weekend or even during the week as I am not working at the moment? Let me know when it is best for you (besides this weekend) and we will do it.

    I probably made this sound worse than it is. The bass is good in my room, its just that the null in the 40-60 area at my center seat bothers me. The 40-60 range seems to be a significant impact area for bass so If getting another sub might somehow get that back it would be great. If not it is not the end of the world. I thought having someone look at my setup and what I have done who knows more than I do might help me out, you never know! If I move aprox a foot over to the right and probably left the null goes away, but I like to sit in the middle for the perfect stereo seperation.
     
  11. John S

    John S Producer

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    It sounds like some bizzar cancellation effect of the room really. Dead center is where those sorts of things usually crop up. That is serious, in that it effects such a large range. (normally 20hz would not be a large range but down this low, that is a very large range)
     
  12. John S

    John S Producer

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    PS: I forgot to comment, but I also use s38's all the way around, even my center(s). [​IMG]
     
  13. Todd smith

    Todd smith Supporting Actor

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    Nice! Yeah I love those s-38's. I have not felt a need to upgrade them in the 2+ years I have had them.
     

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