When will we see a migration to Component and HDMI?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Kenneth Harden, Jul 24, 2005.

  1. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    Obvsiously, HMDI is coming to more and more units in the coming months - and years, however, why so few component video inputs? For example:

    http://www.bkcomp.com/507large.htm

    Great unit and it does have three component inputs. However, anyone who owns a unit like this will have a HD source and a DVD player. Add one other item (game system, HTPC, media server, etc.) and you are maxed out.

    Meanwhile, you have a TON of composite and S-video inputs - which I am sure most users will use one or two of max.

    Why are we not seeing 4, 5, 6 component inputs, and 2, 3, 4 composite/S-video inputs instead?

    Also, a lot of big buck receivers have 2 in/1 out HDMI, seems kinda limiting (HD DVD player, HD source, computer, upcoming game systems - thats 4!)

    Sorry for the rant, but it seems like even when you pay a TON of cash, the HD video options are scarce.
     
  2. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    A lack of consensus is probably one reason. I don't want to route any video through a receiver or pre-pro, I connect directly to my display. I hate that I have to pay for something I don't want or need. I want my audio gear to be as good as it can be at reproducing audio, I don't want them wasting money on what to me are unnecessary video circuits. If I ever need to switch video I'll buy a quality video switcher.
     
  3. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    Well, there are a lot of people who need to do this either for convenience, nessisity, or because they are running to a 'monitor' or FP and NEED to have video switching.

    Point is, some receivers/Pre's have over TEN composite inputs, what is the point? Ya goning to hook up your $50,000 system with composite video? Might have been OK in the 80's.
     
  4. BrianWoerndle

    BrianWoerndle Supporting Actor

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    Even though we in this community are at the top of technology, the majority of America is not. The majority of Americans have no clue about any of this technology. There is about 50% of people who still hook up video game systems with an RFU (yes, even to HDTVs).

    New technology is expensive to implement and the general market does not demand it yet.
     
  5. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    Brain:

    Working in the industry, not RF, but composite, but more and more people are understanding (thanks to sites like this, Crutchfield's education stuff, friends in the know, etc.) how and why things work.
     
  6. Rhett_Y

    Rhett_Y Screenwriter

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    Why don't we first get people to understand the differance between widescreen vs full screen..... Come on now, you really expect the masses to understand this stuff..... when they don't even know the differance or care to know the differance....yet alone know the differance between composite and s-video....

    If this was the case there would be no more full screen dvd's....

    R~
     
  7. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    I have done a lifetime of education that all of you would really appreciate - I am not the only one who does this [​IMG]
     
  8. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Not sure about this, but I think I heard that component and HDMI migrate in the spring and fall.
     
  9. ChrisWiggles

    ChrisWiggles Producer

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    sheesh. people still run their video through their receiver!?
     
  10. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    I've never seen a receiver with 10 composite inputs, let alone one with more than 10. How long ago was this and is that receiver still in production?

    Most receivers these days seem to have about 3 composite inputs and about the same number of S-video inputs. There is a reason for that, most of the people who buy these receivers have a lot more sources with composite or S-video outputs than component, DVI or HDMI outputs. Again, people in these forums get a seriously distorted view of the real A/V marketplace because they see only cutting edge users. And yes, the people in these forums are either near the cutting edge or they are interested in getting there. Joe Six Pack, who is the the target buyer for most consumer electronics manufacturers, does not come to these forums.
     
  11. Mort Corey

    Mort Corey Supporting Actor

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    I'm not quite sure that even HDMI will be the interface of the future....at least in its present incarnation. The receiver manufacturers are probably offering minimal hookups in those configurations until such time as one becomes a little more mainstream. Heck, my cable company barely offers a DVI hookup let alone having the firewire on their box active.

    The only reason, other than convenience, I can see running a video signal through an AVR would be if it contained some kind of enhancement circuitry ala the Denon 5805. Whether that works as advertised, I haven't got the extra dinero to find out.

    Mort
     
  12. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    Dan:

    McIntosh for example.
     
  13. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Imagine: you are the engineer designing the back-panel of a reciever. You decide the reciever will support 4 different "Sources". To be complete each source will need:

    - A composite jack (1 RCA Plug)
    - A SVideo Jack
    - A Component Jack (3 RCA plugs)
    - A L/R audio jack (2 RCA plugs)
    - A coaxial-digital jack (1 RCA plug)
    - A Optical Digital jack

    Total: 7 RCA jacks, 1 SVideo, 1 optical

    (I am ignoring the DVI and HDMI connections)

    The Marketing department gets ahold of your spec and the Project Manger comes to your desk:

    (This is how I imagine the conversation would go)

    "You cant have that many connections per source. This means you need 36 jacks just for 4 sources."

    "Whats wrong with that?" you ask.

    "It's a lot of real-estate on the back panel, and a lot of wireing to connect the jacks to the electronics which is expensive. And you provide 3 different video jacks for everything. Two of these will always be un-used so it's a lot of money for redundant connections. And, we have to make the box bigger just to hold all of these. This is going to add a lot of money to the cost of the reciever."

    "But people will love the flexability" you protest.

    The Project Manager sighs.

    "We have another problem." he explains. "Our competitors have a slogan: 'The electronics should be simple to operate'. When a customer takes a look at your back-panel - they will be frightned by all those connections. We have competitors that are making a lot of money selling simple 5.1 systems with only 3 speakers (Bose), or 1 large speaker (Yamaha) that sits under the TV."

    Seeing the look on your face, the PM continues:

    "Look, our survey shows that 100% of the electronics support Composite video, 30% support SVideo, but less than 10% offer Component hook ups. Until more people get Component video devices - all this 'flexability' wont be used."

    The PM starts to walk away. "And, we DO offer our high-end unit that has 4 component hookups. Your new reciever might take sales away from our top-of-the-line reciever. If someone has more than 2 component sources, he can afford to buy our more expensive unit.".

    (Fade to black)

    It is suprising but the number of knobs, switches, and jacks on a box contribute a LOT to the price of the electronics.
     
  14. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    Bob,

    Good post. Another factor is the component video switching, with HD-capable bandwidth, is MUCH more expensive than composite or S-video. I don't know about DVI/HDMI, but I would suspect their costs to be closer to a component video switch than an S-video switch.
     
  15. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    Wow! I knew McIntosh was behind the times, but I didn't think it was that bad. [​IMG]
     

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