When do you ruin a speaker? bottoming

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Charbel, Jul 30, 2001.

  1. Charbel

    Charbel Agent

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    I think it`s my center channel that`s bottoming out on a specific spot in the Haunting DVD. I`ve played it many times but did`nt realize what was going on. It sounds like a loud clapping sound. How many times can you bottom out a speaker untill it`s shot? Please don`t tell me it`s too late. I think it`s the center but not positive. Paradigm Studio CC with 100wpc Onkyo receiver. Is there a way to tell if its ruined?
     
  2. Ryan Peddle

    Ryan Peddle Second Unit

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    2 ?'s
    Are you using a sub?
    What is your center set at, Large or Small?
    ------------------
    Oops, I dropped my eardrums.
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  3. Ryan Peddle

    Ryan Peddle Second Unit

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    Oh ya....and how old is it...Paradigm have fantastic warranty service.
    ------------------
    Oops, I dropped my eardrums.
    Could you pick them up for me?
     
  4. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    How does it sound when you are NOT running 15hz through it?
    Definitely set your center channel to small.
    Re-watch the haunting with the new setting and see how it performs. If the driver is shot, low voices and any effects in the center channel will sound distorted or be inaudible.
    Assuming you purchased your speakers through an authorized dealer and you are within the warranty frame work, you could get the driver replaced in a few minutes.
    "The Haunting" is a known sub-killer. Very low sweeps in the movie, perhaps even lower than 15hz(?) can destroy even full range tower speakers that are set to large.
    Check those speaker settings and let us know how it works.
    Jeremy
     
  5. Charbel

    Charbel Agent

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    Sorry guys, I usually give more info/details when I post but, I have everything set to small and Servo 15 sub running on the 80 hz from the receiver. Onkyo 787 100wpc The Studio 40`s and studio CC is about a year old or so. The popping sound is coming from the center of the room but It could be tricking me and be from another speaker. I`m sure I could look into that.
    When listening with 2 speakers I could go higher on the volume dial without any problems, but in surround that`s when I hear it, at lower volumes than that. (still loud though)
    Believe it or not, that was one of the reasons I`m upgrading to a 200 watt amp. I`m thinking it will help in this area. If it does or not I`m sure it will still be a good upgrade (Parasound HCA 2205).
    I was just worried about having already ruinning my speaker. I don`t hear anything out of the ordinary out of them when listening to low volumes. And will NOT be testing that popping sound anymore.
     
  6. John GB

    John GB Stunt Coordinator

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  7. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    also...i suppose you could always disconnect your mains to verify that the popping is coming from the center.
    will a center channel truly "bottom out"? i didn't think the cone was big enough to do anything like that, especially on a smaller center-channel speaker? just wondering...
    ------------------
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    But the water has moved on.
    This page is not here.
     
  8. Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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  9. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    " How does it sound when you're not running 15hz through it?"
    More of a sarcastic statement if the center channel was set to large....didn't think it would be taken literally. [​IMG]
    It sounds like you have the correct settings and one helluva a sub. It is very possible to bottom out the Paradigm, though. As mentioned by a previous poster, Toy Story 2 will bottom out subs as well. If your sub does not have a limiter on it (SVS [​IMG] ) some of these flicks that drop down into those dangerous hz. regions can bottom out your speakers. This is a good reason, IMO, to set even a pair of monster mains to small and let the sub take care of the low-end detail.
    Jeremy
     
  10. Neil Joseph

    Neil Joseph Lead Actor

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    I would say it is your sub bottoming out and not the centre channel if it is set to small. A handful of DVD's will cause even the "best" subs to bottom out. Some subs will not bottom out simply because they have protective subsonic filtering. They will never play the subharmonic bass below 20Hz. This is where the design of the enclosure is so critically important. Even the most expensive driver will bottom out unless the enclosure/ports pick up the slack and protect the driver.
    My PSB subsonic 6 bottoms out on 2 tracks out of all the DVD's I have.... Toy Story 2 and Titan AE. Neither of these DVD's has subsonic filtering meaning the bass information extends well below 20Hz. The Haunting could be another of these DVD's that can cause subs so much trouble.
    If you have not already, pay a visit to the DIY Advanced Forum here and read some of the posts over there.
    orangeman
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    [Edited last by Neil Joseph on July 31, 2001 at 01:18 PM]
     
  11. Charbel

    Charbel Agent

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    OK, I just put my center channel speaker to "none" on my receiver and went through the same scene. (Haunting) I could`nt hear the same sounds, maybe it`s my CC. But now I`m starting to think it`s THE MOVIE SOUNDS! OH NO! IF THAT`S THE CASE I`M SORRY FOR THE HASSLE! I still can`t tell with only a few minutes of testing.
    btw it`s the scene where the woman is on the bed and she sort of jumps off and slides on the floor. Then throws something through the big glass window, and it comes back in the room. Then running through a hallway and the ceilings are falling down on her.
    Is anyone familiar with this scene and can this cause the bottoming out? I`m almost certain that without the center it did`nt, but the problem is the scene has certain sounds that RESEMBLE a speaker cone bottoming. and I can`t decipher from the two. Am I crazy or what?
     
  12. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    I've never heard of a center speaker bottoming out especially if it is set to small. It sounds like the amp is clipping more rather your center bottoming because they can both sound similar sometimes.
    ------------------AOL Instant Messenger Name: kyler70
     
  13. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    BTW, I have played the DTS version of this scene many times on my Paradigm CC-350 and never experienced the center sounding like it is bottoming. The sub on the other hand.... [​IMG]
    ------------------AOL Instant Messenger Name: kyler70
     
  14. Rob Lloyd

    Rob Lloyd Stunt Coordinator

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    Kyle - How does that scene sound now w/ the new 281s? The shiva sub I built - what's the limit on that for damage to happen? I played that same scene quite a few times at reference+ levels but it just seemed to just keep pumping out the room shaking bass. On Gladiator at about 125db it started to make a flapping noise - is that bottoming out? How much can it take before I have to replace the driver?
    Thanks,
    Rob
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  15. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    Well, no bottoming is good for the driver [​IMG]
    I have bottomed mine several times on different matierial and it is okay as long as it is infrequent and not terribly hard. Just dont make it a habit.
    The best thing to do is find the loudest bass passage and play it at the loudest volume you will ever play it and adjust the sub accordingly. This will prevent it from bottoming out but may be a little soft on other material so I would test out the volume with the spl meter and find the best compromise. At those spl's you are getting all of your moneys worth plus out of the sub. [​IMG]
    BTW, it is great with the Adire 281's!
    ------------------AOL Instant Messenger Name: kyler70
     
  16. Charbel

    Charbel Agent

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    "It sounds like the amp is clipping more rather your center bottoming because they can both sound similar sometimes."
    Maybe that`s what it is. I honestly thought they were the same thing re clipping/bottoming. Oh well, I`ve got a lot to learn. Thanks. Like I said before I`m getting a new amp, so we`ll see what happens after that.
     
  17. Kyle Richardson

    Kyle Richardson Screenwriter

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    Charbel,
    Clipping is when an amplifier runs out of power reserves and send a clipped signal to the speakers. Bottoming a speaker driver is the actual speaker traveling to its mechanical limit and actually bottoming out.
    Either one isnt all that great on the speaker so be careful.
    ------------------AOL Instant Messenger Name: kyler70
     

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