When a trade goes awry?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Andy_B, Dec 28, 2001.

  1. Andy_B

    Andy_B Stunt Coordinator

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    I traded a DVD with another HTF member and he received mine within a few days. It is closing in on 4 weeks later and I have still not received his.

    The trader is staying in constant email contact with me so it is NOT an issue of being ripped off.

    I am looking for suggestions on the best way to remedy the situation.

    He believes the fairest thing to do is to just return the original disc back to me that I send to him.

    I was told when I joined this site that it is the senders responsibility to insure the DVD so that in the very rare case something is lost, the sender can just a get a new and send that.

    I really don't want my disc back, which is the reason I traded it and he does not feel that buying a new disc is fair to him so we are at a bit of an impass.

    Thoughts?

    Andy
     
  2. Dave Johnson

    Dave Johnson Stunt Coordinator

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    that's a tough one. technically if he agreed to the trade, i guess he would be bound to it and it would be his responsibility to assure his end of the trade is complete (i.e., do whatever it takes to make sure you get your dvd). but personally, i'd accept my original dvd back and try and arrange a different trade.

    just my feelings.
     
  3. alan halvorson

    alan halvorson Cinematographer

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    I make trades now and again. If it's a single dvd, I rarely insure the package reasoning that, over the long haul, the amount I'd have paid for insurance will exceed any potential loss. This has turned out to be true. I do, however, tend to use delivery confirmation just so that I have something to point to that says, "hey - it's been delivered!".

    What would I do? Well, recently I traded a sealed dvd where the disc came off the hub and became scratched while in transit. Since it was sealed I replaced it with a brand new dvd and accepted the return of my original (which wasn't quite as bad as was described - were I the recipient, I would not have complained, assuming it played ok). So, as your trader does not want to buy a replacement, I would accept the return of the dvd.

    It's not ideal, but it's an imperfect world. He's the one who is out, not only the dvd but double shipping costs. Sounds like a very honest fellow to me.
     
  4. JonZ

    JonZ Lead Actor

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    If Id sent a DVD that got lost and the other guy never received it,Id feel like I had no choice but to buy him the DVD promised and send it.

    Its no ones fault.Shit happens. But at leasy that way youd be holding up your end of the bargain.

    The DVD or the cash value.
     
  5. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Either way, it is the sender's responsibility for the receiver to get the disc.

    In this case, his sending back your disc or replacing the value would probably be best.
     
  6. DavidY

    DavidY Supporting Actor

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    If it's a cross border trade, you might to want to wait a bit longer...I have had several cross border trades that took four to five weeks to complete. Trades from the US to Canada have been uncomfortably slow....five weeks for air mail is outrageous. On the other hand, Canada to the US appears to be the same, fair fast...one to two weeks (depending on whether it's air/surface mail) to complete.

    This is one reason why I haven't made any trades with US HTF members lately.

    Dave
     
  7. Ron Eastman

    Ron Eastman Second Unit

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    Personally, I would have bought you a new disc but I think this trader's solution is a fair one. In the end you lose only the original shipping cost while he is out shipping(x2) + the DVD. I would consider the situation from his point of view; he is trusting that you are being honest about not receiving the disc and for that I would cut him some slack in the solution.
     
  8. Paul James

    Paul James Stunt Coordinator

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    I don't see why the other person should be held responsible just because it's been lost in the mail (if that is the case which it appears to be). If it was me I'd send yours back to you, I don't think it's fair to buy you a new one due to his being lost in transit which is beyond his control.

    At least he's willing to do that, some people may say well I sent it, it's not my fault it's been lost by the post, tough luck.

    Paul.
     
  9. David_B

    David_B Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, I guess I'll post here. I am the other trader. Four weeks IS too long I agree and I'd be upset as well. A little over a week ago, I suggested I send back Andy's original disk to him since it appears mine is lost in the mail. At that time, Andy did not want his disk back (for reasons he has stated) and he opted to wait. This week he appears to want something to happen quickly, however. I feel that buying a new disk for a replacement of a used disk is not fair to me since both disks involved in the trade were used disks. I have offered a few solutions to this problem, some involve a little more waiting on his part. The following solutions led me to the conclusion that i did. If anyone has other suggestions, I'm open to them. The options are as follows:
    1) This option is the quickest, just send his disk back and cuss out the mailman for losing my disk. I realize Andy doesn't want this disk anymore, but its not like I want to do this either.
    2) Andy and i come up with a fair value on the used disk (either really) and I paypal him the amount and we are done with it. He can then go and locate another used copy of the disk I sent him. Of course this option would not work if we can't agree on a reasonable price. A new price is NOT ok with me [​IMG] (see option 4). Also, if he does get the original disk I sent, then what?
    3) Andy would need to give me some time to locate another used copy of the disk he wanted. This option involves some trust on his part as well as time. The latter seems unworkable considering its IS going on 4 weeks soon and Andy is understandablly wanting a quicker solution. Usually finding a used title in a clinch is not an easy task anyway.
    4) This option is a modification of the second option where I would buy a brand new disk AND pay for shipping. This to me is unacceptable since I did not intentionally lose the first disk i sent and involves the highest possible cost to me. Not only that, but he gets a new disk for a used one, not fair to me i believe.
    5) This option would be for us both to go to the post office and file a track package form to see where the damn thing went. This option is pratically useless, I tried it once on a package sent to me and no results were seen.
    As a few have stated, if the original disk I sent is not delivered (albeit late even if it is), I'm out because I have to pay the shipping on TWO disks (whether i luck out and find another used copy or his gets sent back to him). I have been involved in many trades, although only a handful on this forum. From my experience in about two years of trading, the best solution is to reverse a trade if there are problems (ie broken hubs, wrong versions, not the promised condition, and apparently lost inroute). I've never heard of a bond that held me to going out and buying a new disk to replace one that a second party (the post office) lost of mine. I feel my solution is a fair one. It isn't the only one I offer either. In closing, Andy has been very patient and I regret this has happened. As we both have stated to each other, this is the first time this has happened to either of us. If any one else has any other suggestions, please let either of us know. Now, I'm going to go to sleep now and read all my typos in the morning [​IMG]
    My $0.02,
    David
     
  10. alan halvorson

    alan halvorson Cinematographer

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    Were I Andy, I'd pick David's option 1 or 2 and be done with it. It may not be ideal or what is wanted, but it's as fair as it gets. The thing is, Andy, David is in the driver's seat - he's got the disc. Get it back or get the money while the offer is still on the table.
     
  11. Kevin. W

    Kevin. W Screenwriter

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    How about going down to the post office where the DVD was sent from to see if its kicking around? And if that doesn't work get them to do a package search?

    Kevin
     
  12. Glenn

    Glenn Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi,

    I think that both traders have been good traders in the case. Both have shown patience and a willingness to work things out. That is a big plus in this case and another great reason to trade with people on this forum.

    I believe that sending back the one DVD or giving the value of the missing used DVD are both good options. Very fair on the part of both traders, IMO.

    Now, what is that missing title? Maybe one of us here on this forum can help really solve this problem?

    Glenn
     
  13. David_B

    David_B Stunt Coordinator

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    Glenn,
    The missing title is 13 Days. Know anyone wanting to sell a used one? [​IMG] Actually, I may have talked a friend into selling me his copy, but thats not set in stone yet. I also have begun looking for it in my used DVD shop crusades that I tend to do [​IMG]. I DID find a Robocop Criterion for $14 at a pawnshop, so its not ALL bad news. I keep missing the post office hours so far to rattle their cage [​IMG]. I have faith that we can get something worked out to Andy's liking here......
     
  14. Andy_B

    Andy_B Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi David,

    I sent you email yesterday but I am not sure you got it.

    I am willing to give this another week to see if the mail can fix itself and if not you can just send Swordfish back to me.

    Andy
     
  15. DennisHP

    DennisHP Second Unit

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    I was involved with a 3-4-1 trade recently where I gave 3 of mine for one of his. I sent him mine and actually saw them for sale here on HTF before the DVD meant for me even arrived! The other "to remain nameless" party claimed his trade disk was "lost in the mail" and after almost 5 weeks I finally received a new copy of the disk; but NOT before I involved the forum moderator who locked this person's trade posts forcing him to finally do something. The funny part was when the other party wanted me to leave good feedback! I didn't and they got pissed and sent me several nasty emails.

    Obviously this is not the case here and both parties are trying to work something out on their own. True HTF family members! The thing I don't get is the PO. There must be some hell of a black hole filled with "lost" stuff. Perhaps Santa can fill his toy bag from there next year.
     
  16. Mick Wright

    Mick Wright Second Unit

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  17. David_B

    David_B Stunt Coordinator

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    Mick,
    Grrrrrr..... [​IMG] .
    Andy, got your mail, YGMB [​IMG]
     
  18. Lucas Dang

    Lucas Dang Stunt Coordinator

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    I have seen dvds and cds sent in the envelopes instead of a box that were trashed, one even had tire marks on it indicating it had been run over. Mail does sometimes gets mishandled. Ive paid big bucks for some PSX games, they delivered the packaging all shredded, with nothing inside, and the PO wouldnt do anything about it because they said it was the poor packaging's fault, not theirs.

    In any situation where someone reports they sent it it obviously pushes your ability to trust them, but if you think about it, we all are sending stuff when we really dont know each other and theres always a risk. I think its fair to say, sometimes stuff gets lost and we shouldnt get too mad as long as the other party is polite, responds to email and attempts to work it out. I had one guy say it was my fault because I didnt ask him to ship with insurance.

    Which brings up a whole new idea! Why do we send each other 20-100$ worth of dvds when we trade simultaneously on good faith, but when you sell you dont ship the goods until you get the check in the mail? Why is it ok to trust for a 20$ value dvd but not for a 20$ check? The last time I sold a disc I just sent it as if I was trading, Logically its no different.
     
  19. Keith Plucker

    Keith Plucker Screenwriter
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    Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth.

    As a trader, I have always felt that it is my responsibility to get my item safely to the other party. Period. In the case of single DVDs, I always ship USPS priority mail w/delivery confirmation but I do not insure it. If a disc of mine went into a black hole and never arrived, I feel there are only 2 acceptable options;

    1) Return other party's DVD and reimburse the shipping charges to him.

    2) Replace the missing DVD and complete the trade.

    In the case of #2 a new disc could be purchased or if time allowed, I used disc could be sought out. In any event, I would let the person I am trading with choose the remedy.

    In my mind, when you ship something you assume all risks associated with whichever carrier you choose. If you do like I do and risk loss by not insuring, then you become, in affect, the insurer yourself.

    In this case, Andy seems to want the title he traded for and doesn't wish to wait any longer. I would go out and buy the title in question and ship it to him. If Andy were to receive the original used DVD at a later date, I would hope he would ship it back.

    IMHO.

    Regards,

    Keith
     

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