What's Wrong With Paradigm Studio 80's?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Bob Br, Feb 12, 2002.

  1. Bob Br

    Bob Br Agent

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    I am currently researching a 6.1 system for a 2600 cu ft HT 70%/Music 30% setup (may move it to a 4000 cu ft room in the future). Paradigm is high on the short list. In reviewing previous threads, I've noticed a strong Studio 40 contingent, a strong Studio 100 contingent, a respectable Studio 60 contingent, but little to no Studio 80 support (apologies to supporters posts I've missed). Haven't listened to all of them yet, so I'm soliciting opinions as to what drove your choice. Using an Onkyo 898 (110x7 @ 8 ohms, 140x2 @ 8 ohms, 220x2 @ 4 ohms). I hope to listen to the full line again shortly before making a final decision. Thoughts?

    p.s. btw my 1st thread
     
  2. Mark Austin

    Mark Austin Supporting Actor

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    IMO, it has to do with what is considered to be a rather large midrange/bass driver at over 8 inches. Most people feel that 5 1/4 is the optimum for producing mid-range, and the max should be 6 1/2.
     
  3. Evan S

    Evan S Cinematographer

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    The 80's use a different crossover frequency than the other lines. The 100's are the flagships and the 60's are basically the 40's drivers in a floorstander. Because of the different crossover, a lot of Paradigm followers believe the 80's have a slightly different sonic character than the rest of the line. People who are considering the 80's would be better off getting the 100's (assuming you have enough power to drive them) or the 60's (if you don't and/or are looking for a smaller floorstander).
     
  4. Bob Br

    Bob Br Agent

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    Evan,

    Are the crossovers the 3rd-order, 2nd-order electro-acoustic numbers?

    40/60 3rd 1.5kHz 2nd 400 Hz

    80's 3rd 1.8 2nd 400

    100's 3rd 2.0 2nd 250

    ADP 3rd 1.5

    CC 4th 1.5

    If so, would the above imply that the 100's are also sonically different? Please bear with me because I don't know if this data means anything, I'm still very much in the learning mode.

    Bob
     
  5. Evan S

    Evan S Cinematographer

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    Bob, here are the specs...

    40's - 3rd order electro/acoustic at 1.5kHz, 2nd order electro / acoustic at 400Hz (lower bass driver).

    60's - 3rd order electro/acoustic at 1.5kHz, 2nd order electro / acoustic at 400Hz (lower bass driver).

    80's - 3rd order electro acoustic at 1.8kHz, 2nd order electro / acoustic at 400Hz (lower bass driver)

    100's - 3rd order electro/acoustic at 2.0kHz, 2nd order electro / acoustic at 250Hz

    So, technically I guess the answer to your question is yes, the 100's too would be slightly sonically different. Because they are a 4 way design (as opposed to the 3 way designs of the 40's, 60's and 80's) You would assume a different tonal character anyways. To tell you the truth, I own the 40's and 20's and didn't listen to the 80's or 100's in comparison. Basically I was going off comments I've heard via word of mouth on the forums regarding the 80's. I don't know if being the only speaker in the line that crosses over the mids at 1.8 as opposed to 2.0 or 1.5 really makes the sound different, but supposedly it does.
     
  6. EricHaas

    EricHaas Supporting Actor

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    I think people should gauge something like this based on what their ears tell them, and not the specs listed in this thread. Even assuming for the sake of argument that the 80's have a "different" sonic character, that doesn't mean it is better or worse. And I would never not buy something because its midrange driver was either smaller or larger than some theoretically optimum size. If you like the sound, you like the sound. If you don't, you don't.

    I haved demoed the entire Studio line over a period of a couple hours at a local Paradigm dealer. To my somewhat unsophisticated ears, the major differences in this line are in the base response only. Some people will say different of course. Go listen for yourself and judge.
     
  7. Bob Br

    Bob Br Agent

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    All,

    Thanks for your responses. Listening is definitely the final arbiter. I was mainly interested in what others may have heard (or not) when they listened or bought.

    Bob
     
  8. Dustin B

    Dustin B Producer

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    Evan,

    The 100 is a 3way design, the 20 is a 2way design. The 40, 60 and 80 are all 2 1/2 way designs.

    What this means is that the 100 has two complete crossovers. One sends the above 2khz to the tweeter and below 2khz to the 6.5" cone. The other sends the above 250hz to the 6.5" cone and the below 250hz to the two 8" drivers.

    The 20 has a single complete crossover at 1.5khz. Above goes to the tweeter below goes to the 6.5" driver.

    The 40, 60 and 80 are 2 1/2 way designs. This means they have a complete crossover at 1.5khz for the 40/60 and and 1.8khz for the 80. The first 6.5" or 8" drivers covers everything below the 1.5/1.8khz crossover. The second 6.5" or 8" driver is then what makes these 2 1/2 way designs. They only have a low pass filter (ie half a crossover, a full crossover has a highpass and a lowpass filter). This filter makes it so the second driver only handles frequencies below 400hz on 40/60/80. The first 6.5" or 8" also covers this frequency range, it doesn't get cut off at 400hz, if it did they would all be 3 way designs as well.

    Now these are filters not brick walls. They have a gradual slopped drop off above and below the crossover freqeuncy. How steep this drop off is depends on the crossovers order and type. In general though 2nd order is 12dB/octave and 3rd order is 18dB/octave.

    Anyways to sum up

    100

    tweeter > 2khz

    2khz > 6.5" > 250hz

    250hz > 2x8"

    80

    tweeter > 1.8khz

    1.8khz > 1st 8"

    400hz > 2nd 8"

    40/60

    tweeter > 1.5khz

    1.5khz > 1st 6.5"

    400hz > 2nd 6.5"

    20

    tweeter > 1.5khz

    1.5khz > 1st 6.5"

    Oh and the quality of the sound depends on a lot more than the size of the driver. Some of the best 2way TM and MTM speakers out there use an 8" mid/woofer.

    What's more important then the drivers size is how its specs are mated to the enclosure and crossovers used.
     
  9. steve paul

    steve paul Stunt Coordinator

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    I just purchased four studio 40's and a studio CC for my bedroom. A couple years ago I had a 100, 40, cc setup which was better than the all 40 setup. If I was putting these in my main dedicated theater, and wanted Paradighm, I would go with the 100's up front, not that the 40's are a slouch, they are actually GREAT, e specially since I only paid $400 each at my local dealer. My monitor Audio gold reference speakers in my main theater sound much better, but were three times the price. Paradigm does make a great speaker for HT. For music I could only live with the 100's though. Im used to my Monitor Audios and Revel Studios for music, so I am spoiled.

    BTW, The Studio CC is one of the BEST center channel speakers I have ever had, besting my $1000 monitor audio GR center. PLUS it integrates very well with the 40's. Very seamless.
     
  10. Tony Meconiates

    Tony Meconiates Stunt Coordinator

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    I can vouch for the 40's as I recently picked up a pair in rosewood veneer.
    Very nice speaker[​IMG]
     
  11. Evan S

    Evan S Cinematographer

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    Steve, I would LOVE to have your audio/HT budget. I know what you have for a front end and it makes me salivate. Knowing you have both Revels and Monitor Audio's AS WELL as a Paradigm Reference setup makes me jealous as hell.

    I have a pair of the 40's as mains, 20's as rears and the CC. Can you give a comparative performance ratio of these to both the Monitors and Revels. Down the road some I am going to be setting up a dedicated 2 channel system for the bedroom and will be auditioning these two lines if I can find dealers relatively close. Do you say the Paradigms give 75% of the performance of these lines? Higher? Lower? Music only, not HT. Just curious.
     

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