what's the difference in DAD and DVD-A?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by DarrylWHarrisJr, Mar 11, 2002.

  1. DarrylWHarrisJr

    DarrylWHarrisJr Stunt Coordinator

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    was about to pick up some chesky jazz titles and didn't really specify dvd-a just DAD which uses 24/96 tech...need to make sure I am getting dvd-a before i buy...
     
  2. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Darryl,

    96/24 uncompressed PCM audio is part of the original DVD-Video spec. So these "DAD"s are actually giving you the same quality as 96/24 DVD-Audio. Buy without fear. I have a few of these 96/24 DADs and they sound stunning. If you like Jazz I can heartily recommend the Cannonball Adderly (Classic Recordings) "Something Else" DAD. It sounds like Miles is sitting in my living room. Some of the most realistic acoustic instrument recording I've ever heard, and great performances to boot. I think there's a version of John Coltrane's "Blue Train" also, but I have the recently mastered LP record of that so I'm happy with that.
     
  3. DarrylWHarrisJr

    DarrylWHarrisJr Stunt Coordinator

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    yeah that was what i was going to get along with about $150 worth of DAD's
     
  4. Jagan Seshadri

    Jagan Seshadri Supporting Actor

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    I wonder how the "Somethin' Else" DAD compares to the RVG-Edition that Blue Note released on CD...

    Is the DAD version made from RVG's 1998 remastering?

    (RVG = Rudy van Gelder, the session's recording engineer).

    -JNS
     
  5. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    I don't know about Somethin' Else particularly, but I remember reading a review of the DAD of "Blue Train" that mentioned that the same master was used for the new LP record, CD, and DAD disc, and that disc is in the same Blue Note series.

    NP: The Seventy Sevens: A Golden Field Of Radioactive Crows
     
  6. Jagan Seshadri

    Jagan Seshadri Supporting Actor

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    Well, now I can answer my own question. The 24/96 DAD version of "Somethin' Else" is three things in comparison to the RVG remastered CD:
    1) A different mix (wider stereo separation)
    2) More dynamic than the RVG remastered CD (less dynamic compression)
    3) Successful in capturing the actual sound of cymbals and brushes (less peaky in the high frequencies).
    Let me just say unequivocally that the 24/96 DAD version of the album is clearly superior to the RVG remastered CD and is a real treat to listen to. It now joins my Bill Evans Trio "Sunday at the Village Vanguard" XRCD as my jazz treats. [​IMG]
    Since I do my own recording, I know that redbook CDs are capable of good dynamics, so I rerecorded the album from 24/96 to analog to 16/44.1. I then did an A/B listening test of the 24/96 and 16/44.1 versions. Sure enough, a CD is capable of having far better sound than the RVG remaster which has been mastered to have less volume variances (less dynamics), and which also has a more cluttered mix. However, the clarity of the cymbals and the quality of the reverberation were degraded by going to 16/44.1.
    Mind you, I was hardly using optimal downsampling from the 24/96 to get to 16/44.1 but I confirmed what I suspected: most CDs today are not being made as good as can be. This may be as punishment for the MP3 revolution, or to widen the sonic gap between CDs and DVD-A/SACD. That being said, the 24/96 version of this album still offered better high frequency reproduction and better recording reverberance (called 'air' by others).
    And of course, the music on "Somethin' Else" is ... somethin' else.
    -JNS
     
  7. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Jagan,

    Thanks for following up. The "Something Else" disc represents some of the best audio I've ever heard in my system. It's amazing how real the drums sound, particularly the brushed snare and hi-hats. I have no other version of this CD to make a comparison however.

    NP: Talking Heads: More Songs About Buildings And Food.
     
  8. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    There is something to keep in mind though.

    Not every DVD-V player pass the 24/96 digital data through it's digital output.The ones that don't will simply "downconvert" to 24/48,which would defeat the reson to play these discs.

    Consult your manual in that respect.
     
  9. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Darryl, the only DVD-Audio discs that Chesky has released are Bucky Pizzarelli Swing Live and Christy Baron Steppin'. The Christy Baron disc was only produced for a limited time and is no longer in print. Chesky stopped making the DVD-Audio disc and released the album on SACD instead. Anyway, I was able to get a copy of the Christy Baron DVD-Audio disc from Chesky about a month ago, so you might still be able to get it as well.
     
  10. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Lewis, fair point. Of course, DVD-Audio players do the same thing with DVD-Audio discs. Most DVD-Video players have 24/96 DACs and some even have 24/192 DACs, so one can use the analog outputs with DADs. In that case, analog bypass on the pre/pro or receiver is a must.
     
  11. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  12. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Lewis, you are correct in making the distinction between DVD-Audio discs and DADs. Many older DVD players are limited to 24/48 output, but at least as DADs became a bit more common, 24/96 output did as well. Anyway, I was just saying that the end result with DVD-Audio discs and DADs is the same (24/48). Note that owner's manuals for DVD-Video players that support output of a 24/96 bitstream often say that copyright protection on 24/96 discs may lead to downconversion. None of my Chesky DADs have such copyright protection, thankfully.
     
  13. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  14. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    So, if DAD and DVD-A are the same thing, why are they treated as different formats by players? Or, rather, what does DVD-A do that DAD does not?

    My player allows me to choose whether or not I want to do the down conversion from 96K, depending on the capabilities of the player. I don't know if it's a common feature, but it certainly should be.

    NP: Robert Fripp, 1995 Soundscapes Volume 1: Radiophonics, CD
     
  15. Jagan Seshadri

    Jagan Seshadri Supporting Actor

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    Lewis,

    I checked my sound system setup and the receiver is indeed getting a 24/96 stream, not a 24/48.

    Mike,

    The differences between DAD and DVD-A:

    DAD: 2 channels at 24/96 max.

    DAD is just normal DVD playback without video and with uncompressed PCM sound.

    DVD-A: 6 channels at 24/96 each (max.)

    or 2 channels at 24/192 max.

    DVD-A is an altogether different format that uses lossless compression (MLP; Meridian Lossless Packing).

    -JNS
     
  16. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  17. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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    I have a disc that's labeled as "DVD Music." I'm assuming that this is DAD?

    I've never seen the Adderley disc in stores. I'll have to order that.

    NP: Randy Weston, Spirits of Our Ancestors, CD
     

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