Whats the deal with "SUVs" (1 Viewer)

[Graham Perks]

I can't find it now, but when Ford released the Excursion there was a good joke going around. It was about the new Ford Exhorbitant that came with a spare Explorer in the back

SUV? No thanks. Maybe a WRX wagon is in my future If it had better mpg I'd be at the dealer right now!

Most of my driving time is commuting, so a hybrid like an Insight or Prius really does make a lot of sense. But I fear to lose the cargo capacity of my Integra.

 

[Chris Maynard]

NO ONE needs a car that big.

Thank goodness it is not up to you to decide what people need and don't need.

 

[Philip Hamm]

kevin_tomb, you may hate when "soccer moms" drive SUVs, but most "soccer moms" love them. They look better than a minivan and hold just as much if not more.

Paul, you may want to check the numbers. SUVs in general have nowhere near the interior cargo space that minivans do. In order to get more room than a minivan you need to get to Excursion or Suburban size. A Subaru Outback station wagon has as much room as most SUVs. (it's a hell of a great vehicle also)

 

[Ron-P]

NO ONE needs a car that big.

Well, my neighbors do. They have 3 kids, that's 5 all together. When they go on trips or anywhere, they need the space. It's nice to know you know what everyone does not needLets be sensible here people.
Kevin, you have some valid points, but I have to agree with Paul that pin-pointing SUVs as the possible down fall of the economy is streaching things a bit.
I'm also willing to bet that the majority of these SUVs on the road are not 4-wheel drive.
Peace Out~

 

[Kevin P]

I guess we all have our priorities. Money has a lot to do with it too. Those who have $40K to spend on a car will either buy a luxury car (Lexus, Mercedes, etc.) or a big SUV. Those of us who are less fortunate buy cheaper or used cars. I drive a compact Saturn, it's an efficient, reliable car that gets me to work and back, and about the only new car I could afford at the time. There are times I wish I had something bigger, since I can't fit much in the trunk, but those times are rare. In those cases, I borrow a truck or wagon from a family member. I looked at the new Saturn VUE and they looked big to me, since I'm so used to my little car. I think they're smaller than Explorers though, and the base model (4 cylinder, 5 speed, front wheel drive) is reasonably fuel efficient and affordable as well.

Idiot drivers are everywhere, and they aren't just driving SUVs. I also agree that a lot of big rig accidents are caused by idiots in other cars doing stupid things; big rig drivers are well trained and specially licensed and know how their rigs handle. It's when some moron cuts one off that the big rigs rollover or jackknife--they aren't suited for fast emergency maneuvers or fast stopping.

I also agree about America's horsepower fetish. Sure, a 200+ HP Altima is fun to drive, but so is my 100-odd HP Saturn, and I pay less for gas every week. 0-60 times don't mean much when the car in front of me is always going to accelerate slower than my Saturn is capable of.

KJP

 

[kevin_tomb]

PAUL

maybe you got me wrong...im not telling anyone what to drive..cause I own a SUV and a car. I think the soccer moms are driving the SUVs not cause of room, because only the largest SUVs have more room than a minivan, but more cause its a FAD. They see one next door and one 3 doors down etc etc. Its the "hey betty has one and shes my friend, why dont I have one?"

And PAUL you are COMPLETELY WRONG about the economic implications. Were you around in the late seventies and early eighties when foreign competition almost killed off the american car manufacturers?? Its not the soccer moms faults or anyone buying a SUV..they are just following the FAD. Its the pure greed of the auto indurstry and the lax government thats allowing these vehicles to be made.

People can drive whatever they want, I have no argument, but to say, it in no way will impact our auto industry ??if their is an oil shortage or worse an all out war,that is being naive. Trust me Ive lived in europe and the USA, several years in both. Many of the reasons europeans drive generally smaller vehicles are true, smaller roads (in towns anyways) and parking, a lot of this was designed on purpose. They have high gas taxes to keep things efficient because of their high dependence on imported oil. The big difference with the USA is we own reserves of oil so we can keep gas low priced for a while. When our reserves get close to depleted what will happen?...I know its years off, but how far ??....5 years??...12 years??...What will the government do when they finally realize we dont have a lot more left on our borders??

Will they all the sudden say "ok all vehicles must get 35 MPG or else???" Or will they put HUGE gas guzzler taxes on all trucks and SUVs???.....The problem is going to come someday..thats a GIVEN..We should be trying to keep somewhat umemotional about this, its not a "I will drive anything I want argument", its more of an "WHAT am I gonna do with my wifes 12 MPG expedition now that gas is $2,50 a gallon" Weve had too low gas prices for too long....its gonna change someday.

ARE WE READY FOR THAT DAY???

 

[Paul Jenkins]

I guess we all have our priorities. Money has a lot to do with it too. Those who have $40K to spend on a car will either buy a luxury car (Lexus, Mercedes, etc.) or a big SUV. Those of us who are less fortunate buy cheaper or used cars. I drive a compact Saturn, it's an efficient, reliable car that gets me to work and back, and about the only new car I could afford at the time. There are times I wish I had something bigger, since I can't fit much in the trunk, but those times are rare. In those cases, I borrow a truck or wagon from a family member. I looked at the new Saturn VUE and they looked big to me, since I'm so used to my little car. I think they're smaller than Explorers though, and the base model (4 cylinder, 5 speed, front wheel drive) is reasonably fuel efficient and affordable as well.

As a recent SUV shopper and now a new Vue owner, I can tell you it is smaller than the Explorer. However, at a shade under $16K, it was sure hard to pass up. And it is fun to drive even with the small 4cyl and manual tranny
On the minivan-versus-SUV size issue, I was comparing full-sized SUVs like the Expedition and Suburban to the mini-van, obviously the smaller SUVs aren't as roomy as a minivan..

 

[kevin_tomb]

DUDES the discussion is getting old...LOL....
I just wanna have my old 75 chevy full size van back....it better than all those suvs damn it had shag carpet all over and a bed in the back and 6 foot long chrome sidepipes adn fat low profile tires and a CB radio with a huge whip antella on the rear bumper....NOW THATS TRUCKING>>>>>

 

[Philip Hamm]

Keep on truckin'!

 

[Ron-P]

I hear ya Kevin.
I'd love to get my 1985 Toyota SR5 X-Tra cab 4x4 back. I had this baby built for off-road. 6.5" suspension lift (no cheesy body lift or axel blocks here), 33" BFG all-terrains. Completely redeisgned exhaust system with Tri-Y headers and K&N intake system. Of course I had to have my 16 speaker, 3-amp Alpine audio system in it. Camper shell with carpet kit, built my myself for max comfort. Duel shocks all around. Tracking bars on the rear axel. I put breathing tubes on both axels so I could submerge her in water w/o risking damage to the differentials.
I've got some old pics of her flying thru the air. Broke a leaf-spring once and had to limp home from the desert. Damn I miss those days.
I'll have to post some pics if I can find someone with a scanner.
Peace Out~

 

[Mark Schermerhorn]

Normally I don't chime in on SUV debates because it's like arguing abortion: both sides are completely polarized and the crux of the issue is rarely reached. But when I read the inevitable comment below which finds its way into any SUV debate, I have a good laugh.

What I loath is people attempting to tell me that what I purchase is somehow 'wrong' or that because I don't offroad, i don't 'need' an SUV. This country seems to have more than its fair share of whiners and people trying to impose their view of the world on others.

It's funny because for every person telling you it's wrong to own an SUV for reasons x, y, and z, there are 100 people that are telling you it's right. That includes your neighbors and peers, but it also includes advertising executives with UNLIMITED funds who will beat into your brain with endless advertising that it is totally right to own one. But no one complains about that end of the argument. The Sierra club doesn't have billions of dollars for their own ad campaign telling you SUV's are bad.

There are certainly legitimate uses for SUV's. Personally I can fit my snowboard in my honda with another person. Someone else on this board says he can't, but it sounds like he's lugging more friends around as well. But things like this have nothing to do with the crux of the issue, which is this: as an American in a basically free society, do I get to drive whatever the hell I want to because it's my right to do so, or do I have a responsibility to keep pollution levels as low as possible, keep everyone in small cars so that accidents don't guarantee injury when it's a small car vs. a large one in accidents, or any other counter argument you can come up with that can be used to argue that YOUR SUV use is impinging on MY freedom. I'm not presenting the counter arguments as the best or even my own, although I do fall on that side of the debate, I'm not a fan of SUV's.

I hope this post isn't too political, I don't want my comment to be the one that shuts down a good SUV flame war...

 

[Jared_B]

That someone was me Mark, and yes I do many times have four people with boards in the vehicle.

Nobody is going to change anyone's mind here. People who are against SUVs for environmental reasons should be campaigning the government to impose the same pollution requirements on SUVs that cars get. It can be done; my SUV is a Low Emission Vehicle. The Germans and the Japanese have figured it out, why can't the Americans. They use 1960s technology and then complain to the govt that the restrictions are unfair to them.

I think this would be better use of a person's time if they don't like SUVs, because they're never going to get people out of them. SUVs are just too practical.

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

According to the predictions in the news in the 1970's, we should have run out of oil about 5 years ago.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

The Germans and the Japanese have figured it out, why can't the Americans. They use 1960s technology and then complain to the govt that the restrictions are unfair to them.

Every single Ford SUV (including the Diesel Excursions) and Windstar Minivan since at least the 2000 MY has been a "low emission vehicle" or better. Trucks and cars do have different standards for LEV emissions, however, and heavy trucks have different standards than light trucks. Beginning in 2001, other manufacturers started selling LEVs outside of California Emissions states under the National LEV program, but this was limited to cars and trucks under 6,000 lbs Gross Vehicle Weight. Ford voluntarily continues to certify their Expeditions, Navigators, and Excursions to LEV standards even though they are technically exempt from the federal program. Is Ford among the 1960s technology-using complainers that you are talking about?

FYI, all F-series pick-ups are certified federally as LEVs or better even though all but the smallest of them are exempt from the National LEV program.

Regards,

 

[Philip Hamm]

According to the predictions in the news in the 1970's, we should have run out of oil about 5 years ago.

Every single one???? I find this statement dubiously believable at best.

 

[Ron-P]

According to the predictions in the news in the 1970's, we should have run out of oil about 5 years ago.

I love it when people guess. After all, that is all predictions are.
Peace Out~

 

[Aurel Savin]

I have to chime in ...
I have no problem with anyone driving an SUV because it is fun or because it is a status symbol, or they go offroading.
But what gets me is that the majority of them, especially here in NY is the small variety type; Explorer, Xterra, Escape, Liberty are so amll inside as far as passenger room and cargo space that buying them becuase they are roomy is utter BS!
I am 6'7' and have tried many SUV's with the intent of buying .. mostl as I mountain bike and haul stuff around. What I found is that they are "less roomy" inside that the average sedan. The Xterra for exmaple had such a poor design that it would have made it virtually undriveable for me. My right leg was wedged between the steering whell and the center console, literally!
Anyway .. I am thinking of buying a MINI Cooper seriously. I think they brainwashed me with their ads (THE SUV BACKLASH STRATS NOW) ... besides, I'll be able to outmanuever any 4x4

 

[Paul Jenkins]

But what gets me is that the majority of them, especially here in NY is the small variety type; Explorer, Xterra, Escape, Liberty are so amll inside as far as passenger room and cargo space that buying them becuase they are roomy is utter BS!

Not true at all. My little Vue has a lot more usable room than any sedan I looked at in the same price range by a long shot, and even has more room than the new E class Benz that I *really* wanted
Especially for things like computer monitor boxes, etc. a SUV is a huge improvement over the car. The cargo capacity of my SUV is 2x a sedan in the *worst* configuration. Fold down the rear seats and the front seat and I have over 100 ft of usable cargo space. Also, the rear passengers in my small SUV have more head and leg room then in the E class as well.
The E class specs:
Front Head Room: 37.6 in.
Rear Head Room: 37.2 in.
Front Leg Room: 41.3 in.
Rear Leg Room: 36.1 in.
Luggage Capacity: 15.3 cu. ft.
The Vue specs:
Front Head Room: 40.4 in.
Rear Head Room: 39.9 in.
Front Leg Room: 41.2 in.
Rear Leg Room: 36.4 in.
Luggage Capacity: 30.3 cu. ft.
Maximum Cargo Capacity: 100 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5
Proof of your statements being incorrect, just like most SUV basher statements that I hear...

 

[kevin_tomb]

dudes...I dont think its a hatred of SUVs or anything like that, or someone telling someone else what to drive. I think its some people (me kinda included even though I do drive an SUV) that eventually our backward progress of using more and more oil reserves is gonna come back and haunt us sooner or later. Noone knows for sure when the oil will run out. But its the lack of responsibility the government shows about even admitting a problem is on the horizon. We use the most oil of any country by a VERY wide margin. A lot of countries HATE us for that, and the fact of what lengths we will go to defend oil in the mid-east. To say "I can use all the gas I want and noone can tell me what to do" is being very naive and blind about the world economic and political state in gereral.
Its not a hatred of SUVs or SUV drivers, its a fear that the normal american J6P doesnt even consider what the long term impact will be, not does he care !!
Our Government wont outlaw trucks and SUVs. It would kill our american auto manufacturers. They wont make huge gas guzzler taxes either for the same reason. The government will do the typical wait and fix the problem when it happens deal like they do for everything.
Ive heard so many guys I know say something like this and it scares me a bit "Its my money and I can drive whatever I want, if gas gets scarce I'll just dump the blazer and get some cheap jap car" So is that what J6P will do if we have a gas shortage???....IF so we ARE in for trouble...:frowning: :frowning:

 

[kevin_tomb]

PAUL JENKINS

HEY you are right about a lot of the smaller SUVs having more room, but those are really the car based crossover type vehicles. All the truck based ones, including cherokees, exploers, blazers etc are actually usually a noticable bit smaller than a mid size car and a good bit more cramped than something such as the HONDA CRV. I checked one of those out and its wider and less cramped than my explorer. In fact was VERY impressed with it.