What's the deal with Classic 39 Honeymooners?

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by mb96001, May 26, 2012.

  1. mb96001

    mb96001 Auditioning

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    I have trouble watching anything kinescope. I know that's how it was done (I don't know why. It's shit quality). The new 35mm transfer look great. Some of are expecting perfect quality from some pretty old TV material. This isn't a high budget theatrical release remastered. This was a low budget weekly series filmed 60 years ago. I'm very happy with these releases. I just can't watch kinescope. Someone mentioned Blue Ray and HD???? Come on, pull yourself together. Really? HD? Get a grip (or a life). The color versions were interesting. I watch them, but you have to admit, it's a little weird.
    Thanks
    Mike
     
  2. Ethan Riley

    Ethan Riley Producer

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    Well, better kinescopes or nothing at all. I don't think anyone truly enjoys having to watch kinescopes, but that's all there is. The show was broadcast live, not filmed, and anyway, they didn't routinely start videotaping tv shows until the late 50s.
    Anyone asking for blu-rays must be talking about the filmed episodes, because BR won't do much to improve the quality of the taped shows, or even the kinescopes. But if we love the Honeymooners, we just have to take them--flaws and all.
     
  3. DeWilson

    DeWilson Cinematographer

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    Kinescopes get a bad rep which is undeserved. It all comes down to how the were made, the condition of the surviving prints/negatives how they were transfered.
    I have seen nice kinescopes (without any clean up or processing) and I have seen poor kinescopes (There's a couple of DARK SHADOWS kinescopes that are in rough shape as all they had were old prints and not negatives.)
     
  4. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    I wish that the "Livefeed" process would gain more traction and be applied to kinescopes, because the results do a damned good job of bringing the look as close as you can get to the original "live" quality which would look more like a videotaped image.
    What I despise is when videotaped source material is improperly encoded by people and rendered in a kinescope like fashion as was done on BCI's botched release of "Password" and Shout's release of "All In The Family" S7.
     
  5. MattPeriolat

    MattPeriolat Supporting Actor

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    So far, I've been lucky with kinescopes. The ones I've seen were with Westinghouse Studio One (for the most part, glorious) and Tales of Tomorrow (problematic, but still watchable). Bottom line, they are what they are. We're not going to do much better unless a private collector has something really special stashed next to the Ark of the Covenant.
     
  6. Ethan Riley

    Ethan Riley Producer

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    Kinescopes, to me, have always been sort of a necessary evil. Because we're lucky they even survive in the first place. At least there's something to see. Think of how many shows do not survive any longer, in any form.
     
  7. mb96001

    mb96001 Auditioning

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    I agree with many of you. If you love a show, you'll watch it anyway you can get it. When recording a show off of a studio monitor (kinescope) is all you have, then that's what you're happy to have. Ethan put it well, "Think of how many shows do not survive any longer, in any form".
     
  8. ksteiger

    ksteiger Auditioning

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    OMG PEOPLE. The classic 39 were NOT kinescopes!!! How many times in one thread do you have to answer this???
     
  9. JoeDoakes

    JoeDoakes Cinematographer

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    I thought they were. Why does the video quality look so poor then (compared with pre-restoration Lucy, LITB, Bilko)?
     
  10. Tom M

    Tom M Stunt Coordinator

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    The "classic 39" were filmed on 35mm. They were also NOT broadcast live so no kinescopes needed to be created.
    They look good to me. Sure they could use a fresh HD restoration/transfer. I would happily re-buy on Blu if that happened! :)
    But as is, they look fine and nothing like kinescopes! The artifacts are a result of NTSC composite transfers and DNR. HDTVs can be VERY unforgiving with such material.
    Another thought: It's also possible that Paramount used existing VHS masters for the DVD set which would explain a lot.
     
  11. AndyMcKinney

    AndyMcKinney Cinematographer

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    Maybe some of the people talking of kinescopes in this thread were referring to the Gleason Show sketches, not the 'classic 39' (one post I think made a distinction between the 'scoped episodes and the filmed ones).
    If someone is talking of doing a massive box/restoration, I think it would be very important for the VidFire (er, LiveFeed) process to be applied to all of the kinescoped sketches. This process is, sadly, used much less frequently on US shows than the equivalent UK ones.
     
  12. Corey3rd

    Corey3rd Screenwriter

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    The Classic 39 did use the Electronicam that shot video and 35mm film at the same time.
     

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