What's the best widescreen lcd monitor for HD dvd?

Bryan^H

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
7,253
Right now I'm looking into a 20" Samsung LCD monitor 1680 X 1024. I have read reviews on it, and it seems to be a really decent monitor. When I buy the HD drive for my Xbox 360, I want to get the best picture possible without spending $3,000. At $289.00 it seems like a steal. Anyone have suggestions?
 

Cees Alons

Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 31, 1997
Messages
19,709
Real Name
Cees Alons
Bryan,

In the first place: when you want it for HD, why not look at the 1920x1200 versions (are slightly more expensive, of course).
Problem is: will they accept 1080i (which you need, to use it for the 360 at the highest possible resolution). I don't think it will.

Of course, if you accept the fact that you won't use 1080i, then you can also buy the other monitor and use 720p.

The input might be the Component, S-Video or the DVI connector (if you want to connect it to an HDMI output, you will need an HDMI -> DVI-D cable, but in this case the DVI input of the monitor should be HDCP-compliant).

DELL also sells these monitors, perhaps even a little bit less expensive, and I know for sure that one of them (24", 1920x1200) is indeed HDCP-compliant AND that it doesn't support 1080i either.


Cees
 

Bryan^H

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
7,253
Thanks Cees,
I guess I'm just going to accept the fact that 1080i is just a dream for now, but 720p doesn't sound all that bad. It still should be worlds better than my current picture quality. I think I'm going to shop around a bit more on some of the monitors weighing the pros, and cons. I can't wait until November.
 

Cees Alons

Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 31, 1997
Messages
19,709
Real Name
Cees Alons
Bryan,

As you may have guessed, I'm currently testing the DELL monitor I mentioned, and indeed 702p isn't bad at all, because the monitor will convert it to its own 1920x1200 matrix, doing a fine job.

This makes me very happy with this monitor and in the (near, or not so near) future I may even have more use for it, if I decide to add a BD player (e.g. the PS3) to my setup.

Also, I'm looking into a scaler/de-interlacer (for several other purposes too), and it may conveniently de-interlace a 1080i image to 1080p (which I hope will be supported by this monitor).

Bottom line: we're entering the HD era, consider a 1920x1200 display!


Cees
 

Brian-W

Screenwriter
Joined
Feb 8, 1999
Messages
1,149
If you look hard enough, you can pick up a Westinghouse 37" native 1920x1080p LCD monitor with every input imaginable for about $999
 

Ryan-G

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 13, 2005
Messages
621
Cees,

Why wouldn't they accept 1080i signals?

Accepting a 1080i signal should be the equivalent of playing a 1080i clip, which can be done on a 1900x1200 monitor with a small increase in the black bars/box.

The OS/App should natively adjust the format of the screen to manage the input it's receiving.

Now if we're talking about an external player, such as the X-box 360, that could be an issue. But LCD's aren't limited to only their native res, they can handle other res's, the output is just a little degraded. Of course, I don't think 1080i is a standard res for monitors, so there could be a problem there. But I'd have to imagine that whatever software is used by boxes like the X-box 360 would take into account the potential display, as they are geared towards LCD monitors as well as standard TV's.

Failing that, I suppose you could try to force 1280 x 1024 or 1920 x 1200 on the monitor itself, though I'm really not sure how that'd work out.

I dunno, you seem to know more than I do, what do you think?
 

Cees Alons

Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 31, 1997
Messages
19,709
Real Name
Cees Alons
Ryan,

I tested it myself. The moment I offer a 1080i signal to the DELL monitor, it keeps asking for 1920x1200, 60Hz. Apparently there's no proper de-interlacing circuit in this data-monitor. In fact, I yet have to find out if a 1080p signal will work properly (which I strongly believe, BTW).

Note that the Westinghouse monitors mentioned by Brian do have 1080i in their formal specs! One thing you have to find out for those monitors (at least I couldn't find it right away) is whether or not they are HDCP-compliant (or else the HDMI interface may refuse to offer the higher resolutions).


Cees
 

Ryan-G

Supporting Actor
Joined
Oct 13, 2005
Messages
621

Ah! Now there's something I can help with. The kind folks at Anandtech.com have taken to maintaining a list of LCD monitors and some of their abilities, the most usefull of which is which ones are and are not HDCP-compliant.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messagev...&enterthread=y

Also includes mini-reviews, breakdowns of their abilities in reference to different tasks, and a fairly decent primer on what LCD Monitor techs are and what they do.

Unfortunately, it does lack references to what signals each monitor will accept, but alot of good info there for people researching different LCD Monitors. The links, and the message boards, are read/written by some extremely knowledgable individuals though.

Edit: HDCP compliance is listed under section 9, recommendations.

Edit 2: Your westinghouse panel is in there, and is HDCP
 

Ivy Mike

Agent
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
45
Real Name
Jordan
I was also thinking about buying a new LCD monitor that would be HD-capable. If it's true that indeed the Dell 24" (I assume you are referring to the 2407) can not display 1080i (can it display 1080p either?), what monitors do support 1080i/p but are sized about 20-30inches? The Westinghouse sounds like it would work but it's fairly large.

I'm considering a monitor for both my computer and a potential HD player purchase (somewhere in the future - maybe hook it up HDMI-DVI into the monitor), much like the OP with his 360.

That anandtech guide has been helpful, just curious the best way to determine which ones support the HD resolutions, especially in the 1080i/p category - both for computer hookup and hookup to an hd-dvd player for example. Could a 360 even output 720 or 1080 to a monitor though if the only way to hook up is VGA?
 

Brian-W

Screenwriter
Joined
Feb 8, 1999
Messages
1,149

HP makes a 23" equivalent with component inputs that accept 720/1080i, around $1k-$1500 (HP 2334 is the model number I think).

As for the Xbox 360, via VGA, the highest resolution it outputs to is 1366x768.
 

Ivy Mike

Agent
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
45
Real Name
Jordan
Cool thanks for that Brian. Are there any LCD monitors (computer sized) that do 1080p or is that only the big hardware items?
 

Cees Alons

Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 31, 1997
Messages
19,709
Real Name
Cees Alons
Yes, I was talking about the 24" 2407WFP DELL monitor.

It will accept 720p without a problem (both on the S-Video and the DVI). It won't accept 1080i, and it then says "expecting 1920x1200, 60Hz".

So I cannot tell you (yet, I'm working on something) if it *does* accept the 1080p signal (although it looks like it), because I simply don't have such a signal available (as I said: yet).

But it's a relatively inexpensive solution, and I can tell you it does a wonderful job already converting 720p to its native 1900x1200 pixel matrix!


Cees
 

Brian-W

Screenwriter
Joined
Feb 8, 1999
Messages
1,149


For PC monitors, you're only going to find 1920x1200. For exactly 1080p (1920x1080) the Westinghouse is the cheapest and smallest you'll find.

The PC sized monitors, you either need to go less than 1920x1200 or above it. If you want exactly 1080p, Westinghouse is your next (and cheapest) choice.
 

Ivy Mike

Agent
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
45
Real Name
Jordan
Cees - thanks for the info, and I'd love to hear what you find out on 1080p. Also, how is the component input on the 2407 - I heard there are some issues with it but I was wondering what the specific problems were.
 

Cees Alons

Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 31, 1997
Messages
19,709
Real Name
Cees Alons
Ivy,

You're welcome!


The "problems" with the component (and composite) input have hardly any relation to the monitor as far as I can tell.
I have a slight problem here myself, reporting what's actually happening, because until I have a video source I can control myself, I'm not fully certain what is sent to the monitor and what not.

But here's the best I can do:

When you're playing SD DVD, at a better resolution than 480 (which is only 720p, because 1080i is out of the question), the monitor will display the image beautifully, whether you're using the HDMI->DVI-D cable or S-Video (component) or Video (composite).

UNTIL, that is, the feature part of the DVD starts (or the menu of the DVD) and the player detects a copy-protection (I think it's macrovision). The player then switches the non-HDMI stream to 480p (with a message on the screen). Although that image still is rather nice on this HR-monitor, it's basically 480p. But, of course this has nothing to do with the monitor, just with the HD specs.

In fact, this tells me that the monitor can do 720p fine (both, component and composite)!

With a HD DVD in the tray, it's even more unclear. The monitor displays the still image of the player (HD DVD-logo in right lower corner) in all available modes (480p, 720p, but not 1080i on this monitor), but when the player goes into "Play" the image will disappear on Video and S-Video when the setting is 720p. It's fine on the HDMI->DVI-D cable, though.
So, I assume higher resolutions are suppressed by the copy-protection logic, but I have no clear way of telling it for sure.

I haven't noticed any problems using any of the inputs when the player is set to 480 (p or i). The image of the 2407 is still very impressive then.


Bottom line: I think the monitor is fine using 480i or -p. It may also be fine doing 720p at the component/composite inputs as well, but in most cases you won't get that, because of the DRM as implemented in the player. No problems using the DVI-D input.



Cees
 

Ivy Mike

Agent
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
45
Real Name
Jordan
Currently I have a Dell 1905, which is non-HDCP and up to 1280x1024, so I assume that means no 720p+ through players like the Toshibas and 360 (also wouldn't it have scaling issues since its not widescreen or are those players good about letterboxing)? Are there any players that do non-HDCP high def resolutions currently? I've considered easing into HD by buying either a Toshiba player or maybe a 360, but obviously there are a lot of things to consider (new HDCP monitor for the resolutions, nice surround sound for Dolby True which might require an HD player with analog outs or a receiver with HDMI depending on which player I get, and on and on...).

Anyway, I really don't see a point shelling out money for slight improvement in 480p on my 1905, so I'm guessing I'd be best off with a new display if I'm understanding everything correctly. BTW I hope I haven't offended the OP by sorta hijacking this thread...
 

Cees Alons

Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 31, 1997
Messages
19,709
Real Name
Cees Alons
Ivy,

Well you didn't change the subject.


Yes, of course everyone must decide for him/herself based on the own situation.

Just wanting to add a few more considerations:
(1) This might be an excellent chance to get a HD-A1 for an excellent price.
(2) The improvement on 480 displays (even on my 7-year old TV set) is already remarkable, thanks to the much better horizontal resolution (I guess).
(3) Increasing your setup step by step (as I'm doing too) isn't too stupid, because in the near future it will also enable you to react on changing realities.
(4) You would start enjoying HD discs (and perhaps building on a library) and a better picture on SD DVD now.




Cees
 

Ivy Mike

Agent
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
45
Real Name
Jordan
Sounds good Cees - do you think I will run into issues with the display since it is not widescreen? I'm wondering if these monitors are good at not stretching video from an external source and preserving the AR.
 

Cees Alons

Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 31, 1997
Messages
19,709
Real Name
Cees Alons
Ivy,

I don't know how that particular monitor handles that, but I think the player will simply output 720 lines 1280 wide. So if you set your pixels to "square" using the monitors setup functions, you will be fine.

To set them "square", make the image (including the black parts, which you can see by temporarily turning the brightness up) to the exact ratio of the number of pixels (i.e. 1280 : 1024 in your case). Then adjust the brightness again, and your display should be fine.

And if *nothing* works, you'll have an excuse to buy a 1980x1080 display.



Cees
 

Cees Alons

Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 31, 1997
Messages
19,709
Real Name
Cees Alons
Ivy,

I don't know how that particular monitor handles that, but I think the player will simply output 720 lines 1280 wide. LCD screens have square pixels.

CRT monitors don't (physically), but can be adjusted. So if you set your pixels to "square" using the monitor's setup functions, you will be fine.

To set them "square" on a CRT monitor, make the image ratio (including the black parts, which you can see by temporarily turning the brightness up, measure the image using a ruler) equal to the exact ratio of the number of pixels (i.e. 1280 : 1024 in your case). Then adjust the brightness again, and your display should be fine.

And if *nothing* works, you'll have an excuse to buy a 1980x1080 display.



Cees
 

Forum Sponsors

Forum statistics

Threads
344,833
Messages
4,721,693
Members
141,345
Latest member
els