What's my Line? question (1 Viewer)

[LeoA]

It's frustrating watching Maureen O'Hara's appearance as the mystery guest. It aired earlier in the evening before the premier of her tv movie, Mrs. Miniver.

The What's My Line episode is extant, but sadly, the movie that she was in town to promote seems to have been lost.

 

[Dan McW]

A legend of panel shows left us in December, it was announced today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/06/nyregion/bess-myerson-miss-america-and-new-york-official-tarnished-in-scandal-dies.html?_r=0

 

[Jack P]

Very sad news about Bess. First we lose one of the other iconic Miss Americas who made her mark in the entertainment world, Mary Ann Mobley, and not long before that another of Bess's contemporaries from the world of panel game shows, Polly Bergen left us, and now Bess.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

I like watching WHAT'S MY LINE? just as much as the next guy, but I do want to remind everyone that, like most television in the 1950s, the show was fundamentally fake. I actually read a book about this show -- don't ask me why! -- and a lot of things were admitted.

First of all, the panel wasn't told the contestants' occupations, but they were given questions to ask because they'd get a laugh. So, for example, if the contestant's line was "raises mules," Arlene Francis was told to ask, "Would I be considered normal if I kept one of these in my bedroom?" Big roar from audience.

Secondly, the panelists usually knew who the "mystery" guest was, because 99 times out of a hundred their only reason for being there was to plug an upcoming movie, Broadway show or television show. Sometimes they'd actually run into them backstage!

Thirdly, the producers learned early on that John Daly knew next to nothing about show business, so Arlene was often designated to be the one to mention the "mystery" guest's project. You'll notice how often she'll say, "Martin (her husband) and I saw your show (or movie) last night, and it's WONDERFUL!" This was total bull-you-know-what.

After the quiz show scandals were investigated by Congress in 1959, WHAT'S MY LINE? toned the fakery down to some extent, but not 100%.

Some shows were even worse. A similar show called THE NAME'S THE SAME really was 100% fake.

I'm not raining on anyone's parade here. I think it's actually more enjoyable to watch WHAT'S MY LINE? when you know it's fake, because you can play your own game in trying to spot the "planted" questions.

 

[Jack P]

Allow me to clear up the record here and get the facts on the table. Yes, it is true that in the early years of the show there were questions given to the resident funny-man of the show (usually Steve Allen) that were designed to get yes answers but go down the "wrong track" to hilarious results. Never once though was a panelist told what the occupation was. Dorothy Kilgallen. Arlene Francis and Bennett Cerf by contrast were there to play the game for real and Kilgallen in particular had a combative desire to win.

It is also false that the panel would ever know who a Mystery Guest was ahead of time. They would indeed try to keep up on who was in town for movie previews and try to see if they could nail it fast, but there was NEVER a case of a panelist running into a Mystery Guest backstage before the show with the knowledge that this person would be the mystery guest. On all occasions when that happened, a panelist would disqualify himself from the game and would do so. Bennett Cerf disqualified himself one night when someone tipped him that Frank Sinatra would be a Mystery Guest.

Your comment about Arlene covering for John etc. is also not borne out by the episodes which I have watched. You are basing your comments on imperfect recollections of what you read in Gil Fates' book. Yes, after 1959 the "gambiting" practice was discontinued and the show went along for another eight years in primetime. It was on for 17 and a half years because it was a good program.

 

[Gary16]

Allow me to clear up the record here and get the facts on the table. Yes, it is true that in the early years of the show there were questions given to the resident funny-man of the show (usually Steve Allen) that were designed to get yes answers but go down the "wrong track" to hilarious results. Never once though was a panelist told what the occupation was. Dorothy Kilgallen. Arlene Francis and Bennett Cerf by contrast were there to play the game for real and Kilgallen in particular had a combative desire to win. It is also false that the panel would ever know who a Mystery Guest was ahead of time. They would indeed try to keep up on who was in town for movie previews and try to see if they could nail it fast, but there was NEVER a case of a panelist running into a Mystery Guest backstage before the show with the knowledge that this person would be the mystery guest. On all occasions when that happened, a panelist would disqualify himself from the game and would do so. Bennett Cerf disqualified himself one night when someone tipped him that Frank Sinatra would be a Mystery Guest. Your comment about Arlene covering for John etc. is also not borne out by the episodes which I have watched. You are basing your comments on imperfect recollections of what you read in Gil Fates' book. Yes, after 1959 the "gambiting" practice was discontinued and the show went along for another eight years in primetime. It was on for 17 and a half years because it was a good program.

+1

 

[JohnMor]

Something that I love about WML that can never really be replicated today is the erudition of that standard panel, especially in the 50's episodes. Can't imagine the panel they would get today: a Kardashian, a celebrity chef, some internet entertainment blogger, maybe a reality show star. None of them able to really put two sentences together in any entertaining way. Ugh.Watching it also puts the lie to the myth that all women in the 1950's didn't work and were housewives. Nearly half the contestants were women and easily half of those were married and still working. And the panelists weren't surprised by that. Although I always did prefer it after the married women were allowed to sign in as (for example) "Mrs. Ethel Mertz" instead of "Mrs. Fred Mertz." And after Daly stopped asking them what their husbands did for a living.

 

[Paul Penna]

Something that I love about WML that can never really be replicated today is the erudition of that standard panel, especially in the 50's episodes. Can't imagine the panel they would get today: a Kardashian, a celebrity chef, some internet entertainment blogger, maybe a reality show star. None of them able to really put two sentences together in any entertaining way. Ugh.

Right. For me, the stars of the show were always the panel and JCD; it didn't matter who the contestants or mystery guests were except for how well they provided opportunities for the panel to display their wit and humor extemporaneously. I was a weird kid, I suppose, being an 8-year-old fan of the likes of Fred Allen and Bennett Cerf.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Yes, can you imagine a popular entertainment today including as panelists a journalist and a book publisher?!

Even looking through the TV Guides from the 1950s is like looking into a different Universe.

***

OK, I've been accused of having false memories. How about this one?

I actually remember late in the series, when television was getting a little looser, that the occupation involved toilet seats. I'm not sure if the guy made them or tested them, or what, but that was the "product" he dealt with.

And Arlene asked, out of the blue, "Would I look funny walking down Fifth Avenue with your product on my head?"

The audience screamed so loudly, I bet the sound man went deaf for a couple of hours.

Now, I guess, since I'm old and senile now, this is a false memory, but I've had it in my head for almost fifty years now. Does anyone else remember this, or can someone tell me what I'm mixing up?

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Yes, can you imagine a popular entertainment today including as panelists a journalist and a book publisher?!

Even looking through the TV Guides from the 1950s is like looking into a different Universe.

***

OK, I've been accused of having false memories. How about this one?

I actually remember late in the series, when television was getting a little looser, that the occupation involved toilet seats. I'm not sure if the guy made them or tested them, or what, but that was the "product" he dealt with.

And Arlene asked, out of the blue, "Would I look funny walking down Fifth Avenue with your product on my head?"

The audience screamed so loudly, I bet the sound man went deaf for a couple of hours.

Now, I guess, since I'm old and senile now, this is a false memory, but I've had it in my head for almost fifty years now. Does anyone else remember this, or can someone tell me what I'm mixing up?

To my knowledge, NOTHING like this ever happened. And I'm actually a young viewer from the newer generation. I was not a 50's baby boomer, like a lot of WML's viewers are.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Something that I love about WML that can never really be replicated today is the erudition of that standard panel, especially in the 50's episodes. Can't imagine the panel they would get today: a Kardashian, a celebrity chef, some internet entertainment blogger, maybe a reality show star. None of them able to really put two sentences together in any entertaining way. Ugh.Watching it also puts the lie to the myth that all women in the 1950's didn't work and were housewives. Nearly half the contestants were women and easily half of those were married and still working. And the panelists weren't surprised by that. Although I always did prefer it after the married women were allowed to sign in as (for example) "Mrs. Ethel Mertz" instead of "Mrs. Fred Mertz." And after Daly stopped asking them what their husbands did for a living.

And even if one does not like the politics (sorry to bring this up; only time I'm doing that in this thread) of a lot of the stars who were on the program (i.e. Jane Fonda, Barbra Streisand, Harry Belafonte, Lauren Bacall, Andy Griffith, etc.), at least they have plenty of talent.

More than I can say for the Kardashian, Celebrity Chef, Internet Blogger, and Reality Show star, that the new WML would likely have.

 

[JohnMor]

Right. For me, the stars of the show were always the panel and JCD; it didn't matter who the contestants or mystery guests were except for how well they provided opportunities for the panel to display their wit and humor extemporaneously. I was a weird kid, I suppose, being an 8-year-old fan of the likes of Fred Allen and Bennett Cerf.

Paul, weird or not, you had great taste!

Yes, can you imagine a popular entertainment today including as panelists a journalist and a book publisher?!

Even looking through the TV Guides from the 1950s is like looking into a different Universe.

***

OK, I've been accused of having false memories. How about this one?

I actually remember late in the series, when television was getting a little looser, that the occupation involved toilet seats. I'm not sure if the guy made them or tested them, or what, but that was the "product" he dealt with.

And Arlene asked, out of the blue, "Would I look funny walking down Fifth Avenue with your product on my head?"

The audience screamed so loudly, I bet the sound man went deaf for a couple of hours.

Now, I guess, since I'm old and senile now, this is a false memory, but I've had it in my head for almost fifty years now. Does anyone else remember this, or can someone tell me what I'm mixing up?

Joe, you can say that again about a different universe. As far as leading questions to get an audience reaction, I'm sure they knew after doing the show for a short time what kinds of questions could yield funny results. And on the off chance it didn't, they may actually get useful information. I don't recall your specific example, but I remember many like that at various times over the years.

And even if one does not like the politics (sorry to bring this up; only time I'm doing that in this thread) of a lot of the stars who were on the program (i.e. Jane Fonda, Barbra Streisand, Harry Belafonte, Lauren Bacall, Andy Griffith, etc.), at least they have plenty of talent.

More than I can say for the Kardashian, Celebrity Chef, Internet Blogger, and Reality Show star, that the new WML would likely have.

True, but even then politics was never discussed by the guests anyway, as far as I recall. It was always kept either dignified or very light and funny.

 

[Jack P]

OK, I've been accused of having false memories. How about this one?


I actually remember late in the series, when television was getting a little looser, that the occupation involved toilet seats. I'm not sure if the guy made them or tested them, or what, but that was the "product" he dealt with.

Yes, your memory is false. I am right now studying the reference guide for all 876 shows put together by Suzanne Astorino at tv.com which from Gil Fates' production notes lists the name of every contestant and their line on all shows, including the 118 that are lost. The word "toilet seat" comes up not once on any occupation. And I would also note that WML never got "looser" in that sense even toward the end of its run in 1967.


I have heard Dorothy Kilgallen say something similar about "would I look funny walking down 5th avenue with this on my head" but that was a type of question that only Kilgallen could come up with in her own inimitable style to try and see if it was something wearable or to rule out if it was anything like that. There was no gambiting by that point at all. Yes, they leaned on it in the early years to give the funny-man of their panel a chance to shine more (and they even did recycle gambiting questions from an occupation "repairs zippers" on WML once several months later on "Name's The Same" when the contestant's name was "A.Zipper") but that was no different from Hollywood Squares in the 1970s giving their panelists like Paul Lynde their famous "zinger" answers. The game part of the show was always on the level in that after they might have had some laughs for a minute then the seriousness would take over and sometimes you would get laughs in the most inadvertent fashion that no one could possibly predict.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Well, since politics has been dragged into this, I do want to say that when a show business celebrity makes a political comment, I think it's always uncalled-for and frankly nauseating, whether it comes from Jane Fonda, Barbra Streisand, Bob Hope or John Wayne. I don't know why they do this; all they end up doing is losing half their audience.


***


I think after Dorothy K. left us, Arlene F. took over her "would I look funny" question. My memory of this roar from the audience was late in the series. Maybe it was even from the syndicated, Wally Bruner version.


Of course, if they brought back WHAT'S MY LINE? now, every contestant would be of the "tests toilet seats" type.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Of course, if they brought back WHAT'S MY LINE? now, every contestant would be of the "tests toilet seats" type.

I don't know if you mean this the way I'm interpreting it, but this is why there can be no successful Match Game revival.


Match Game 7X, IMO, was built on innuendo and nearly crossing the line. Today, the panel would just blatantly cross the line, stomp on it, and maybe urinate on it for good measure, and the humor that made Match Game 7X great would be lost for the cheapest joke.

 

[jimmyjet]

7x - does that mean there have been 7 versions of it ???


i liked the one with gene rayburn when i was a kid - i assume that was the original ?

 

[The Obsolete Man]

7x - does that mean there have been 7 versions of it ???

i liked the one with gene rayburn when i was a kid - i assume that was the original ?

The show was Match Game 73, Match Game 74, and so on. 7X is just an easy way to write about the CBS version and distinguish it from, say, Match Game PM or the original 60s Match Game.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

No, 7x means 1970's. X is to fill in a year of the 70's.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

But getting back to What's My Line?, I don't think a revival could work for one reason:


With all the Social Media going on: Facebook, Twitter, etc. the Mystery Guest could easily leaked. Defeating the whole purpose.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

But getting back to What's My Line?, I don't think a revival could work for one reason:


With all the Social Media going on: Facebook, Twitter, etc. the Mystery Guest could easily leaked. Defeating the whole purpose.

Wouldn't even have to be leaked... with 24 hour news and an infinite number of internet news sites, odds are most people have seen or heard of a whole host of weird occupations and the people that do them.


Or, shows like Dirty Jobs and Mike Rowe's new show, which have cornered the market on introducing people to strange jobs and the people that do them.