Whats keeping great receivers like HK 525 from getting at least THX Select Cert?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Charles M Berry, Dec 3, 2002.

  1. Charles M Berry

    Charles M Berry Stunt Coordinator

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    Does anyone know why great receivers like HK 525 and HK7200, which seem to have plenty of power and are very well designed, from getting at least the THX Select Certification? Is there a particular aspect of the HK products (besides HK8000) that they lack, because it seems to me that these hefty recievers would get the SELECT cert no prob.

    People have said here before that THX cert does not cost that much extra, so you would think HK would go after the little logo, for nothing more than increased sales.

    Lack of THX cert in no way affects my decission to purchase HK products since I know from my own experience that this is a great brand, but wouldn't it be cool if the 525 had the THX stamp of approval, whatever it's worth?
     
  2. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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  3. Jeff Ery

    Jeff Ery Stunt Coordinator

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    I applaud their common sense
     
  4. Ryan Wright

    Ryan Wright Screenwriter

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    I agree with Jeff. The little sticker is worthless. If it adds anything - even a dollar - to the cost of the unit, what's the point? If a manufacturer needs to add the logo to sell more units, fine, but I draw the line when said logo costs me money.
     
  5. Adil M

    Adil M Supporting Actor

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    I would pay up to 5 dollars more for the THX logo.
     
  6. Stephen Hopkins

    Stephen Hopkins HW Reviewer
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    If i were in the position to buy a new receiver, and had to decide between 2 similarly priced and speced receivers, but one having THX cert, i would NOT make my decision based on the THX cert, but i would give it some consideration. What interests me most about THX is their decorilation of the back surrounds in a 7.1 setup, which splits the rears into 2 separate channels, as opposed to 1 channel played by two speaker. Sadly, i believe this processing is only included in the Ultra2 package. When talking about HK products, this even becomes pointless since they carry Logic7 processing.

    Either way, I don't consider THX a selling point, but some of the extra processing would be nice. In receivers, it is more than just the logo.
     
  7. Charles M Berry

    Charles M Berry Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks guys,
    So it seems that THX cert wouldn't be that much of a selling point at all for many people here at the HTF.
    But does that mean that HK would meet these specs, but chooses not to add the logo and pay a buck, or is there something in the HK design philosophy that would not allow the recievers to get the cert, even if HK wanted it?
    I didn't mean to start a thread about the pro/cons of THX, as there are many other thread pertaining to this already. I was curious as to if HK (who I think makes awesome and robust recievers) COULD meet these specs, if they wanted to waste their time and money for the logo.
    Again, thanks for all who responded. Sometimes I feel like I'm on a HTF blacklist, since my threads seem to die prematurely. [​IMG]
     
  8. RussKon

    RussKon Stunt Coordinator

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    A few possibilities:

    1. The manufacturer never submitted the receivers in question to be certified..(for whatever reason)

    2. The units were submitted and did not meet the THX standards of performance in some respect. If you do a search on THX standards, you can see what specs need to be met for certification.)

    Regardless of the reason why these receivers are not certified, I feel that it is a selling point to the masses out there. Every movie in the theatre and nearly every DVD you watch has THX splashed all over the intro. If it wasn't a marketing tool, why do most high end companies bother with the certification? (And why can't the most popular speaker company in the world get it's products certified??? - yes none of bose speakers are THX certified)

    If you do a little research you find that certification is not very expensive at all. (Search for THX on this forum alone...)

    Most likely, IMHO, there is some aspect of these receiver's performance that is lacking on the THX specs.

    Russ
     
  9. Greg Kolinski

    Greg Kolinski Second Unit

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    like Russ said,there must be some aspect not meeting up to
    THX spec's,.Who knows what it is,possible something so small as to not even really matter in sound quality/reproduction.Worked as a tech at car dealers for almost 20 years,its amazing the weird .strange stuff manufactuers do,esp imports,which is what ive done for those years.Sometimes 1+1 does equal 5 [​IMG]
     
  10. Bryan Acevedo

    Bryan Acevedo Second Unit

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    But remember that to be THX certified on a receiver, not only do the amps have to meet certain specs, but so do the processors. To be THX certified you would have to include all of the processing. That would cost money to develop, and that my have put the HK reciever in a price bracket that they didn't want. I am sure the amp could meet the specs, but maybe they didn't want to spend the money or time developing processing that only a few people would want to use.

    Bryan
     
  11. Bob_L

    Bob_L Supporting Actor

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    Something else in the opening post made me realize that a misunderstanding may be at work (though it was not in that post.)

    Some people may think that THX certification represents some kind of standard of excellence, similar to "Product of the Year" editorial awards.

    It isn't that AT ALL. It just means that the product has met certain performance/design criteria established by THX. While THX believes these specs are essential for good HT performance, there isn't general agreement on them.

    It also means that the manufacturer has specifically submitted their product for THX certification (THX DOESN'T seek these things out), paid the certification fee, and is paying the per-unit royalty to THX.

    So, THX certification IS NOT a badge of excellence, it is a badge of conformity. It just means that a product matches a set of specs and features. It also means (as detailed above) the product probably costs a little more to cover those THX royalties.

    When software THX certification first appeared on video releases, it usually meant a higher standard of quality. When the program expanded to hardware certification, the meaning became a bit less clear.

    As time passed and some abysmal video releases appeared with THX certification, the brand integrity became seriously diluted, to the point that I think THX means NOTHING in video software anymore.

    If the presence of an ingredient brand makes an individual feel better about his HT purchase or -- more to the point -- makes it easier for a braindead salesman to pitch it at Good Guys, Best Buy, and Circuit City, that's fine. If you happen to agree with the standards established by THX, it may mean you'll be more satified with the certified product.

    But THX certification is in no way a standard of quality, nor are otherwise excellent products in any way "falling short" because they don't have that little speck of ink on the faceplate. If you believe that, the marketeers have fooled you once again.
     
  12. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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  13. Rick_FL

    Rick_FL Stunt Coordinator

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    THX is a waste IMO. It is the BETAMax of the audio industry, and just as doomed to the niche market. But the opening intro in movies is COOL [​IMG]
     
  14. MatthewJ S

    MatthewJ S Supporting Actor

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    I have always wondered why some mnfgrs who surely know that their equipment would meet the criteria just don't have a seperate page in the spec. sheet that has ,line-by-line ,all of the specs and their measurements and all of the requirements laid-out in order without any mention of THX ,just to let people know. This way we could all say "my unit does all those things, but I didn't pay a penny extra for the Logo!".........
     
  15. Greg_R

    Greg_R Screenwriter

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  16. Charles M Berry

    Charles M Berry Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank you all for the replies. [​IMG]
     
  17. Greg Kolinski

    Greg Kolinski Second Unit

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    VERY intersting thread ..... thanks for the link Greg
    [​IMG]
     
  18. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    OK here's my two cents..................for what it worth on sound.

    I think its very hard to go thru stores testing receivers and really know what the sound differences are in a quantifible manner.

    Right out of the box receivers sound different. One might describe a receiver as warm or bright or some other characteristic. Bu the question is thru the adjustments on the receiver can you make them sound alike?

    Now, one might bring receivers home and test them but my take on this IMHO is that one needs to live with a receiver for a while to really know how to configure the reciever for the sound you want. These machines are getting complicated enough that I think its getting harder and harder to make a good comparision in a short home test.

    Besides, I think there's starting to be enough adjustments that in moderately priced receivers (if one had the time) and the proper setup that a tester could get them to sound the same. In other words - make a Denon sound warmer or brighter or tune out brightness on an otherwise bright receiver.

    Therefore, I think THX certification is good. Why? Not necessarily because I would agree its the best thing, but it is A standard. And the receivers that go thru this testing do have requirements and the testing is done in a controlled environment. An environment, that can't be duplicated. by me at home. Now you might argue you don't want to duplicate it.

    But, the standard gives me comfort that the orginal sound that the film maker was trying to achieve can be dupicated to A standard and this has been achieved under a set of defined criteria.

    Now, that's not to say the other non-cert recievers don't sound good. I have bought them and been satisfied.

    But, don't throw THX certification out of the window - it does have its uses.

    Mike
     
  19. MikeRP

    MikeRP Supporting Actor

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    Hey Greg:

    Scanned that thread - very interesitng case for THX certification. Wonder if that was my Pioneer 45 TX he was talking about with the auto cal problem THX found.

    Sounds like THX certification is a worthwhile peer review for the manufacturers.

    Thanks

    Mike
     
  20. Rob Rodier

    Rob Rodier Supporting Actor

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    I have friends that rip my amplifier for having the thx stamp on the front. The "not-musical" stamp they tell me. They are half kidding but it is a different stereotype that is not normally addressed. High end audio snobbery at its finest.
    FYI, the amp is musical[​IMG]
    -rob
     

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