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What's It Worth To You? (1 Viewer)

Worth

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jaaguir said:
I'm guessing threre may be more people here that care about old movies and would pay big bucks for them,, but maybe they consider a waste of time to write this 5 movie list. They know nobody with power will actually listen to this, or maybe they can't choose just 5 movies... If you wanted to know how many people like you are, you should just get your hands on the numbers for "The egyptian".
I don't think you can extrapolate anything from the sales numbers of a single title. There are a number of older films I'd be willing to spend a fair bit of money on, but I have no interest in The Egyptian.
 

Chuck Anstey

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Basically what you are asking is there any movie that I want to rewatch so badly that I am willing to pay a premium to have a copy at all. While I have some movies I enjoy watching over and over, the short answer is no. I enjoy lots of movies and great movies come along every now and then that I could rewatch over and over for a reasonable price. Also the new digital download frontier should make this choice moot. Now if the choice was for a version on a format that had 12-bit 4:4:4 color, lossless video compression, lossless sound, and 4K resolution (and somehow I had a project that could display it and the movie would benefit from such a format), then yes there would be a few movies for which I would be willing to pay a premium on a premium format that was designed to not be a mass-market format but a specialized collector's format, similar to something like collecting 35mm prints of movies. Forbidden Planet The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly The Fifth Element The Chronicles of Riddick (I really enjoy this movie) to name a few.
 

Paul_Scott

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Johnny Angell said:
Does the fact there are only a few of the discs pressed make it more valuable to you? Pressing fewer discs doesn't make the movie better or worse.
It's not about making a film better or worse- it's about making the ownership of a high grade copy of it a more exclusive proposition. It's also about finding some kind of business model that can support the release of deeper and more esoteric catalog titles on a format that can barely support the release of heavily discounted, major catalog releases. It's also not about making every catalog release an expensive, exclusive option.
 

Johnny Angell

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Paul_Scott said:
It's not about making a film better or worse- it's about making the ownership of a high grade copy of it a more exclusive proposition. It's also about finding some kind of business model that can support the release of deeper and more esoteric catalog titles on a format that can barely support the release of heavily discounted, major catalog releases. It's also not about making every catalog release an expensive, exclusive option.
I can dig item two. If it takes a certain business model to get a movie on disc that otherwise wouldn't make it, ok. I will still be one of the people for whom that business model doesn't work. There's a limit to what I will pay. If there's no mass audience for the film and the only way to distribute it is in small amounts, which will require a higher price, so be it. But please don't tell me there is value in an "exclusive proposition" just for the sake of exclusivity. That's just silly.
 

Paul_Scott

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Johnny Angell said:
If there's no mass audience for the film and the only way to distribute it is in small amounts, which will require a higher price, so be it. But please don't tell me there is value in an "exclusive proposition" just for the sake of exclusivity. That's just silly.
The exclusivity thing is primarily tied into viability of the business model. It would be the trigger to make someone, who is already inclined to want to own that particular title, purchase immediately- as opposed to biding their time, waiting for the kind of deal that can really only occur with a more mass market release available at a variety of retailers all competing with each other. But there is also the collector mentality at play. And I don't doubt that a small segment (probably very small) of enthusiasts with more means would be motivated to purchase more exclusives partly because of the fact that very few other people will have them. I see this kind of behavior in other (even more expensive) hobbies, so I have little doubt that mentality would find an in here as well. Some people are passionate about the whole spectrum of films. Some are passionate about a few favorite films. And some people are passionate about the gear and value the media more for the opportunity it provides to see and hear their gear in action, than as works of art meriting deep analytical musing. It takes all kinds...
 

Robin9

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Paul_Scott said:
But there is also the collector mentality at play. And I don't doubt that a small segment (probably very small) of enthusiasts with more means would be motivated to purchase more exclusives partly because of the fact that very few other people will have them. I see this kind of behavior in other (even more expensive) hobbies, so I have little doubt that mentality would find an in here as well.
Many years ago I wandered into a specialist second hand record store. (I had never been there before and I was looking for an out-of-print album) The owner was very sociable and clearly loved to chat with customers. When I told him I had no records I had never played, he said I wasn't a true collector and went on to explain what a real collector was. I replied "Yes, a collector is someone who will buy a record just for the sake of owning it". He disagreed: "A real collector will buy a record he already has just to prevent anyone else from owning it!"
 

Johnny Angell

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Paul_Scott said:
The exclusivity thing is primarily tied into viability of the business model. It would be the trigger to make someone, who is already inclined to want to own that particular title, purchase immediately- as opposed to biding their time, waiting for the kind of deal that can really only occur with a more mass market release available at a variety of retailers all competing with each other. But there is also the collector mentality at play. And I don't doubt that a small segment (probably very small) of enthusiasts with more means would be motivated to purchase more exclusives partly because of the fact that very few other people will have them. I see this kind of behavior in other (even more expensive) hobbies, so I have little doubt that mentality would find an in here as well. Some people are passionate about the whole spectrum of films. Some are passionate about a few favorite films. And some people are passionate about the gear and value the media more for the opportunity it provides to see and hear their gear in action, than as works of art meriting deep analytical musing. It takes all kinds...
Robin9 said:
Many years ago I wandered into a specialist second hand record store. (I had never been there before and I was looking for an out-of-print album) The owner was very sociable and clearly loved to chat with customers. When I told him I had no records I had never played, he said I wasn't a true collector and went on to explain what a real collector was. I replied "Yes, a collector is someone who will buy a record just for the sake of owning it". He disagreed: "A real collector will buy a record he already has just to prevent anyone else from owning it!"
Sadly, I have to agree with both of you.
 

Will Krupp

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That's what I hate about this business model. It is (cynically) designed to appeal to that collector's mind and the "omg remember Scarecrow of Romney Marsh! Buy it fast" crowd. Listen, I don't mind paying higher than average prices for things I know won't sell a lot (that's been a successful model for Criterion for years) but even THOSE can be had on Amazon with applicable discounts


But, if limited profitability is the deciding factor for price, then why limit THE EGYPTIAN to a 3,000 copy run? Why then cap themselves at a MAXIMUM combined gross of $180,000 for the BD and DVD? Once the initial master is made, isn't the manufacture of the discs themselves as easy as popping out corn muffins?

Did Fox REALLY sell Twilight Time the rights for a one time fee (hence the "pay us this much money and you can sell this many discs" pressing cap?) or is Twilight Time, as a previous poster says, a boutique label with Fox hiding behind it?

If it is a Fox label, then I hate this business model even more!


Everything about it (from the inflated "twice as much as the dvd" price to the "OMG its going its going you better grab it" cap) is artificial and cynical (IMO)
 

Mark_TB

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There are a lot of false assumptions being made about Twilight Time and THE EGYPTIAN, so I thought I'd try to clarify some of the points that have been raised here. Twilight Time is NOT a "Fox label." They are an independent company that is licensing these titles from Fox. Big difference. They are a little company putting their own money on the line. The 3,000 copy, limited edition is not simply a cynical marketing strategy. It has to do with the costs of licensing and the royalties due the film's participants. Soundtrack collectors are already familiar with this scenario. When releasing a soundtrack CD in such a limited number, the CD producers get a break on the licensing fees and royalties that would make an open-ended run cost-prohibitive. The same thing applies here. If Twilight Time thought they could still turn a reasonable profit by paying the higher fees and royalties for an unlimited pressing, I'm sure they would. But since Fox itself obviously found such a proposition unlikely, it's hard to blame Twilight Time for going the limited-edition route. If you don't like the price, don't buy. It's your choice. But realistically, this is probably the only way we are going to get discs with such limited appeal. Personally, I think Twilight Time should be praised, not condemned, for taking the financial risk to bring these titles to the public. There is a good interview with Twilight Time's Nick Redman over at Blu-ray.com that covers a lot of these issues. I think some of the posters here might find it enlightening. http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=6728 - Mark EDIT: I just want to re-emphasize the financial risk these boutique labels are taking. When they license a title for a 3,000 unit run, they pay the fees upfront. There is no guarantee that they will break even or turn a profit. A title may sell-out in days, or they may be sitting on thousands of copies years later. There is no such thing as a sure-thing, otherwise the studio would never let the title go in the first place.
 

JoHud

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I'd pay top dollar for the fullest available restoration of the silent epic Napoleon
Mark_TB said:
There is a good interview with Twilight Time's Nick Redman over at Blu-ray.com that covers a lot of these issues. I think some of the posters here might find it enlightening. http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=6728 - Mark
Thanks for that, it was rather informative. While I was fairly sure of most of the issues with SAE's business model and DVD's, this answers most questions I had about them. I look forward to seeing how their business model evolves.
 

Paul_Scott

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Well actually that strategy was developed by Fox Music in conjunction with the American Federation of Musicians and it's been a brilliant strategy that allows a lot of niche products to see the light of day. Licensing fees and royalties are paid a bit differently than they usually are, based on the limited number of units, say 1,000 or 3,000 or whatever it turns out to be.
See, that right there reminds me of another title I would kick in a premium for- Looking For Mr. Goodbar. In this case, the premium goes to pay for music rights, which has kept this title from being in anyones dvd collection. If I'm reading that quote correctly- limited edition sizes could be the hope for all those titles that are stuck in limbo due to music licensing issues. But as is the case I see with all these 'exclusives', part of the upside to higher buy-in price is the belief the product will not lose it's re-sale value the way common open ended mass market releases do. If something is exclusive and in a very finite supply, it's not going to show up for sale new in a $5 bin making the copy you own almost worthless as far as resale.. Based on condition, quantity made, and continued demand- it could easily retain it's full retail price (even when it is used), or even go up in value. For people like me that collect hearitly, but also sell off quite a bit periodically to make room for new stuff, maintaining a good resale value is a significant selling point. And one that may often be worth some kind of premium.
 

Will Krupp

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_TB

There are a lot of false assumptions being made about Twilight Time and THE EGYPTIAN, so I thought I'd try to clarify some of the points that have been raised here.


Thanks for that clarification, it makes a lot more sense than the idea that Twilight Time is somehow a Fox subsidiary. I hope it works for them (and, as I've said in the other thread I'm glad it has allowed people who, otherwise, would not get a quality release of a title they loved.)
 

Johnny Angell

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The assumption is that there is little demand for The Egyptian. How does the demand for Quo Vadis compare? It was released for a broader audience. There's more demand for it than The Egyptian?
 

OliverK

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I think that the problem is the whole premise of being able do a top notch transfer of most of these movies and still turn a profit which is certainly not always possible with the numbers we know of for The Egyptian. So realistic releases would probably be those where the studios have done their homework with regard to having a proper master that could be used for a Blu-Ray release but where for other reasons no release is planned from the studio side. A good example might be the Boetticher Westerns at Sony that could be released on Blu-Ray if Sony would license them to a company like Twilight.
 

Adam Gregorich

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Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H

Here's the thing: Twilight Time is actually a Fox label. Personally, I think that the idea of paying a premium for obscure titles in a limited edition is nothing new, but it might boost the studios' bottom lines in their digital media sales, if only temporarily. At best, it's a band-aid solution.

No, they are independant. They have started with Fox, but from what I understand, they are eventually looking to expand to other studios/releases.
 

Adam Gregorich

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List is subject to change at any time

The Four Feathers (just announced by Criterion......YES!)

Down With Love

Original Versions of Star Wars Trilogy

Operation Pacific

They Were Expendable

Multiple (additional) John Wayne, Cary Grant or Bob Hope films
 

Will Krupp

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Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich

The Four Feathers (just announced by Criterion......YES!)


Woooohoooooo! Yay! I am in for any three-strip Technicolor on Blu (it's a shame though that nobody seems to have footage of the full original British print running something like 133 minutes, but oh well)


Sign me up!
 

Brisby

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Richard--W said:
I might have $40 to spend on a box-set now and then. I just might. But I don't have $40 to spend on a single DVD. Forget it. No matter how badly I want it. No way. Out of the question.
Same here. I'll drop $35 for four movies in the Alien Anthology set and $27 for three movies in the Matrix Trilogy set, but I rarely spend more than ten bucks for an individual movie. The most I've spent on a single movie in the last two years was importing the Blu-Ray of Obsession from the UK for roughly $27, and the fact that I sold the OOP DVD of the film to Amazon for a robust $14 brought the total price of the Blu down to about $13, which was totally worth it for the excellent new transfer and the screenplay booklet. Money is tight, and no matter how much I might want a particular movie, I'm willing to wait for the cheapest possible price before I purchase it, even if it means waiting for months in not years after it's released. I could have bought the Back To The Future trilogy set on Blu for about $50 last November, but I waited, and got it for fifteen bucks a month or so back. :D
 

Alan Tully

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Johnny Angell said:
The assumption is that there is little demand for The Egyptian. How does the demand for Quo Vadis compare? It was released for a broader audience. There's more demand for it than The Egyptian?
You'll never get sales figures from these huge companies, but you can tell how good a title did by what's released next. The Robe can't have done that well or Fox would have released The Egyptian themselves (& Fox would have done better not to region lock The Robe!). And with Quo Vadis, Warner have a lot of colourful adventure films from that time, & two big epics, Helen Of Troy & Land Of The Pharaohs, & no sign of any of that lot...so far.
 

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