What we are up against... (1 Viewer)

[SpenceJT]

Education in the theater is a great idea Mr. Kleist!

We need to sell this idea to the pro OAR directors, as well as the studios. If we could get the likes of George Lucas, Martin Scorsese, Steven Spielbert, and other current box-office greats on board we would have a heck of a start.

I can envision it as a quick sampling of either that director's work, or some classic along the lines of Lawrence of Arabia, or Bridge over River Kwai.

It could be a 30, or 45 second clip without dialog, but occasionally flashing subtitles "see the driver of the jeep?", along with a pullback to OAR "You do if you are watching OAR!". End the clip with something akin to THX's "We are listening", I would vote for "Original Aspect Ratio - See what you've been missing ...on your television!".

I'd hate to see yet one more advertisement placed in front of the feature presentation, but in this case, it only drives the point home in the most impressive way possible! A captive audience, and a large impressive screen!

Happy Holidays!

Spence

 

[TheoGB]

My original Star Wars widescreen VHS (about 10 years old now) have a fantastic advert on them:
"So, you think you've seen the whole of the Star Wars legend on video..."
While the ubiquitous U.S. anouncer voice says this the 4:3 image goes smaller and smaller until it's 2.35:1 height in the center of the screen, while they play very tinny mono sound.
"THINK AGAIN!", at which point they whack the volume up very loud and show the whole wide image. It does this several times over the course of the commercial, with stuff about "the first time, in the original format," etc. etc.
It's a great commercial.

 

[Jay Mitchosky]

As an administrator of this forum I would assume your job would be to ensure the fair and respectful exchange of ideas.

Mike Knapp said it best a long while back with regards to this type of statement. To paraphrase: you don't join a Chevy club and start pushing Ford. I know "pushing" is too strong a word for this thread but it's early and I'm just trying to get the point across . It's not a matter of stifling opinions and discussion. This forum was created around some very specific goals and ideas all geared towards maximizing the home theater experience. By definition Home Theater is the pursuit of replicating the theatrical experience in the home. That requires original aspect ratio.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Well, this page did become a good discussion of the issues, but I felt everyone was too hard on Jeff. Listen to what people are saying before you jump down their throats. I can guarantee you educate NO ONE if you are not civil and considerate.

Furthermore, OAR is a Fact, not an opinion.

Actually, OAR is an opinion. It's my opinion. It's your opinion. I believe it's the better opinion. But we need to understand that many people just don't care. They don't want to care. They have children to raise, bills to pay, and problems to solve. They have loves greater than movies. Getting exasperated, or even possibly rude and insulting while discussing our passion will only hurt our goals. No one likes a know-it-all. My father and I argue with my mother all the time, but she DOESN'T care. She understands, and doesn't care. And yes, we are going to FORCE it on her, but we're related, so we can
My point is simple...respect their view. They aren't saying P&S is better (well, some of them are, but ignore them), they just like it better. We will get more bees with honey than we will with vinegar. Show respect to our fellow posters as well. Regardless of how long they have been members. I'd hate to think people color my opinions with the impression that I have only been here for a few months.
Take care,
Chuck

 

[Peter Kim]

Agreed, Chuck. When discussion deteriorates into hurling insults (i.e., OAR nazi, "what are y'all smoking", etc.), the substantive point of contention becomes severely diluted.

However, there is a distinction between passionately defending a viewpoint and "shoving it down others throats". I would begrudge no one the right to lucidly and adamantly defend their beliefs. I experienced an epiphany during my watching of LOTR. I also understand and respect how this film could affect another to a much lesser degree.

However, as has been asserted several times before, this is a HOME THEATER forum. The name, Home Theater, is eponymous of duplicating the theater experience in your home. This means OAR is the standard. To concede anything less is to undermine the basic tenet of this forum.

Again, OAR is a fact, especially in this forum. It's the ORIGINAL aspect ratio, not the alternative aspect ratio.

 

[Chuck Mayer]

Peter and folks,
I also had an epiphany (actually several) during LOTR. I could not imagine the damage a P&S will do to that. But it's New Line, so it's not my problem
As for OAR being a fact...in some ways, like the way you are arguing, that's true. But, to show my love of movies, and Denzel...I'll utilize a quote:
"P&S has no place in the forum."
"That may be true, but frankly, your honor...we don't LIVE in this forum."
My point is just that. HT enthusiasts are not the majority. We are the most dedicated film fans out there, for certain. But what is dogma for us, is irrelevent to others. We need to explain the differences, and allow the others to MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICE. And we need to accept it when THEY DON'T CARE. At the same time, we need to light a fire under movie studios to release films in both formats, at the very least, and ensure that rentals are available for both versions. That is the fight. And it will only be won, when BB loses money. Not before. They DON'T CARE about movies, they care about profits. It's that simple. I'll sign every intelligent petition in the world ensuring OAR is available for purchase and rent. I'll talk to anyone who'll listen about the merits of OAR. When I buy DVD's, even as gifts, they will be OAR. But that's all I can do.
Take care,
Chuck

 

[Jack Briggs]

For all this talk about those who prefer their films chopped and cropped for a 4:3 presentation, I wonder what the filmmakers themselves would have to say about this topic? I bet the vast majority of them would prefer an end to pan-and-scan for good.

(That the issue is being debated here in HTF, of all places, is amazing.)

 

[Chuck Mayer]

What issue are we debating? I assume that we are all in agreement. Am I wrong? My points above are merely to illustrate the attitudes of NON-members.

Take care,

Chuck

 

[Butch C]

I prefer to watch my DVDs in 16:9 and am hopeful that more TV manufacturers will start selling reasonably priced 16:9 direct view sets.

UREKA!!!!!!!UREKA!!!!!!

The smartest man in the forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Theres your answers fellas.

Bring the prices down and they will come.

Now will everyoune just play nice and leave J6P alone

J6P fought in WWII

J6P fought in Vietnam

J6P fought in Korea

J6P fought in the Gulf

J6P is fighting in Afghanistan

J6P ran into the burning Twin Towers to save lives

J6P builds bridges

J6P fights crime

J6P fuels your economy

J6P searches for a cure for cancer

J6P deserves to watch his movies any way he/she wants and you have

nothing

to say about it.

Bye Bye

 

[Bill Catherall]

As stated by others, I don't think increasing sales of 16:9 TVs will fix the problem. It will make 4:3 P&S videos obsolete, but it may introduce 16:9 P&S (as already mentioned). People need to be educated.
Another trend I've been noticing recently is that people think widescreen TVs look funny. When I get to talking about home theater with non-enthusiasts they all mention how abnormally wide and short the 16:9 sets are. They say something like, "I was over at a buddy's house and he had a 60" TV that was soooooo long. It was weird." Then I say, "You mean a widescreen TV?" To which they answer, "Yeah, one of those." Also, it may become difficult to sell direct view widescreen TVs because they won't fit in those square holes in everybody's "entertainment centers."
And since this thread is about what we're up against, I think I'll include a story that isn't about OAR, but is applicable. I was having lunch with some coworkers yesterday when somebody was talking about how they like to hook up their stereo to their TV and play it loud. The conversation advanced to talking about surround sound and somebody mentioned how their dad has a "kick a** Bose system." I don't know what I was thinking but I flinched at the mention of Bose. It was just a reflex. The guy saw it and asked why I did that. So I answered, "Because Bose isn't really as great as it's hyped to be. You can get better speakers that are almost as small and will cost you less." At this point I had 12 eyeballs staring at me like I had flowers growing out of my ears. Oh boy did I feel cornered. But since I was talking to a bunch of engineers I just addressed the engineering flaws and the marketing genius behind Bose and they seemed to be content with my explanations. For a minute there I thought I was going to be burned at the stake.

 

[Robert Crawford]

for quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OAR is a fundamental concept that HTF will never compromise on and will continue to promote as the only proper way to watch a video presentation of a movie in a home theater environment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

That's not an opinion but a fact!
Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Crawford]

The following are excerpts from HTF's Mission Statement:

Crawdaddy

 

[cafink]

Um...uh...ahem

You left out IMO.

He left nothing out. It's NOT an opinion. It's a fact.

With very few exceptions (Kubrick comes to mind), a movie has a proper aspect ratio. For Ben Hur, it's 2.76:1. For 2001, it's 2.20:1. For The Shawshank Redemption, it's 1.85:1. For Citizen Kane, it's 1.37:1. These aren't opinions, they're facts. It's not subjective — there most certainly exists an objective basis against which you can measure the aspect ratio of a movie.

A pan and scan movie is NOT CORRECT, by the very definition of the word "correct." That does not mean that one is not allowed to like such a transfer, but that doesn't make it any less wrong.

 

[Ross Waite]

Um...uh...ahem
UREKA is actually spelled Eureka...

-Ross

 

[Butch C]

Lookee here...angry people with explosive words when someone disagrees.

Very interesting.

I dont even like P&S but I will fight to the death for thier right to view it.

"Proper" is subjective boys...subjective.

With all the problems in the world do you really need to get worked up about people who dont mind OTHER people watching P&S? Im not even defending it...I exclusivly watch widescreen. I just get really worried when I hear people say "I dont think its right so it should be banned!!!!"

Intolerence is intolerence...there is no distinction, just different results.

J6P is wrong and were right because we spend more on equipment and know when A.I.'s release date is!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boy thats mature.

Problem here is that theres too many people here that feel superior about the fact that they know more about Aspect Ratio than J6P.

Heres a fun assignment...the next time you see a J6P start an argument about OAR...after you win and feel superior find out what thier actual interests are and then argue with them about THIER hobby or THIER job.

Not such idiots anymore...huh.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

Ok, we're still going on this.

If it were possible to get all of the studios to issue only OAR, is this what would happen?

J6P would rent 1 or 2 and return them saying that he doesn't like the black bars (but probably watch them anyway). Since the store only has OAR they would have to explain either by voice or with a sign explaining why they were all OAR.

So, he'd go home and pout. He'd talk to his friends and find out that they are all mad too. Are they going to stop renting? I think not.

I know what we do when we accidently get a P&S, but Joe would be stuck and finally figure out that if he wanted to watch movies at home, they would only be in OAR, and he'd have to get used to it. His next question would be why are all of the widescreen TV's so expensive? Why can't they make smaller ones that I can afford?

After several complaints to sales people at stores like Circuit City, the stores would start complaining to the TV manufacturers, and they would come out. We would win.

So, what is wrong with my example? Are the studios milking them twice and knowing perfectly well what they are doing?

Have they not the foresight to see that if LOTR is issued P&S only, that they are going to have to redo it in OAR several years down the road, after widescreen TV's are the norm.

Glenn

 

[cafink]

"Proper" is subjective boys...subjective.

No, it isn't. It really isn't. A given movie has a particular aspect ratio. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. That's not subjective, it's objective. If you want to know the proper aspect ratio of a certain movie, then you can find out through a number of different sources.

 

[Jay Mitchosky]

...during LOTR. I could not imagine the damage a P&S will do to that.

I was thinking the same thing - in particular the scene where Legolas is sifting out arrows at a ridiculously fast pace into the oncoming Orcs. Fffft ffft ffft. He's at one side of the screen and the recipients are at the other, and there's no way you could pan at that speed.

 

[Butch C]

Proper refering not to aspect ratio but to the "proper WAY to view a movie"

You would be correct if you said "The proper aspect ratio when viewing a movie"...theres a difference

 

[RicP]

J6P is wrong and were right because we spend more on equipment and know when A.I.'s release date is!!!!!!!!!!!!
Boy thats mature

Although not quite as mature as someone that's been a member of this forum for a whole week telling us the way it should be run now..and oh yea..insulting people in the process.
Welcome to the forum...Butch :rolleyes