What tv on dvd sets are "fake" widescreen? (1 Viewer)

[Yee-Ming]

I thought it mostly came from grain? Hence why anything shot with those newfangled HD cameras (the PT Star Wars being case in point) not quite looking 'filmic' and needing some processing to look so. And also why the 'film' look changed over the years as film got faster and the grains got smaller.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Film grain is surely part of it, but its really mostly the 24p cadence. Compare say Episode 2 to the nightly news and you'll see a HUGE difference. The news has what I can only describe as a very "live" feel too it. Also if you can get your hands on a video camera that will shoot 24P, switch back and forth between 24p and 60i and you'll see what I mean.

Video also has grain, which most people call noise, it is quite a bit like film grain and sometimes hard to tell the difference. Just like film where the more sensitive the film stock, the grainier the image, the same is true with video, the more sensitive you make the imaging device (IE the more you crank up the gain) the grainier the video gets.

Filmstock has changed particularly with the introduction of Tgrain film in the late 80s. Digital post production has also changed the look of film because you can do things color wise in a computer that are impossible using traditional film based color timing.

Doug

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Yes, I know that (and said as much above), that's how they can make the post-production filtering look that much more effective. On shows that weren't lit for film and shot multi-camera (like Red Dwarf i-III) the effect is much less convincing.

Oh, and apologies, all, for continuing off-topic!

 

[Douglas Monce]

There are standard def 24p cameras as well.

It is possible to convert video shot at 60i (or 50i in the case of UK television) to 24p (or 25p for UK TV) This maybe what was done to the shows you are talking about. I haven't seen any of them so I can't say for sure.

The big push right now with both SD and HD cameras is 24p because 24p gets you 80% of the film look. Of course there is also shallow depth of field, which in my opinion is probably another 10% with lighting and film grain being the rest.

Doug

 

[Lord Dalek]

First of all Doctor Who is shot at 30fps as is the bulk of SD British television, what you are talking about largely applies to actual film. Also the filmizing thing is a cosmetic choice applied by the producers. Its not the same thing as standards conversion.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Well, I have seen them and as "Lord Dalek" says, they are shot on interlaced video. I've seen raw video footage for some of these series and it is definitely interlaced video. As I keep telling you, these show have the film effect applied in post-production, not in-camera. If you doubt me (and "Lord Dalek"), give them a watch.

 

[HenryDuBrow]

I really hate the way most films now look, they're too slick, I really miss the way films still looked in the 1980s. All this fake color stuff they do now, it spoils the fun of watching movies for me now. It takes a really good actor to drag me to a theater now, so I rarely go anymore, I just don't care for it.

 

[Douglas Monce]

The UK uses the PAL tv system so they couldn't be shoot at 30fps. PAL runs at 50 cycles a second based on the cycle of the electrical system in the UK and Europe. PAL is 50 interlaced frames per second, 25 actual new frames per second. As a result PAL based video cameras shoot at either 50i or 25P.

Again applying a film look will NOT give the look that most people think of as being film. That look and feel comes directly from the 24p cadence of motion picture film, or video shot at 24p or in the case of a PAL based system 25p.

Converting 60i to 24p or 50i to 25p, which is possible with some software, will get you much closer to the film look than applying a filter.

Doug

 

[Douglas Monce]

I do to. As with most new toys, the filmmakers have a tendency to over use them for a while. Interestingly Zodiac, which was shot digitally with the Thompson Viper looks more like film that most other films released last year.

Doug

 

[Yee-Ming]

Must say I enjoy the 'retro' look as well; in fact I just watched In The Shadow Of The Moon, where the archive footage is (obviously) from the late 60s and early 70s, and oddly I rather liked the look, as compared to modern stuff.

 

[Lord Dalek]

Point taken. Regardless Who isn't on 25P its always been 50i albeit now with bad filtering.

Of course this doesn't even apply to Torchwood which isn't PAL to begin with.

 

[Douglas Monce]

Torchwood appears to be shot with Panasonic HD cameras at 25fps.

Doug

 

[Brian Borst]

Stephen King's IT was shot open matted, according to the director. He addresses this on the audio commentary.

 

[Derek Miner]

Also a late addition, but a perfect example of this was the "McCartney Years" 3-disc set which took a lot of 4:3 music videos from tape sources (even ones originally shot on film!!), blew them up to HD, and reframed for 16:9. BLECH!

The video is occasionally acceptable, and passable for someone who just wants official releases of this material in some format, but plenty of the old tapes had nasty artifacts that got worse in this process. There had to be some actual film elements of some of the 1970s promo films that could have been utilized...

 

[lancer1993]

I have a question about Gilmore Girls, a Warner production which started in 2000. It was presented in 4x3 for the first 3 seasons the 16x9 for the last 4. but when it went to DVD all season were restricted to 4x3 and from reports this was because of the original show runner Amy Sherman-Palladino.

First this being a fairly popular show at the time, in the top 3 for the network for a lot of it's 7 season is it likely they would be re-master to 16x9?

Also looking at shots used in the opening credits for the 4 season in 16x9 there are scene from the first 3 seasons that are clearly 16x9, including the pilot. Is it possible that all 7 season were shot and mastered in 16x9 but presented in 4x3 for the first 3?

Did Warner shoot all shows in 16x9 back in 2000?

Also back to the Buffy talk. I have the R4 DVDs and yes season 4-7 are in 16x9 here, season 4 started in 2000, the same year are Gilmore Girls first aired.

Thanks for your time, this is my first post.

 

[TravisR]

Having seen the last two seasons in 16x9, I can say that the only thing that you're missing is some empty space on either side of the frame. Eventhough the later seasons aired in 1.78, the DVDs present the proper aspect ratio for the show.

 

[lancer1993]

See I never got that, I know on the DVDs it says "original ration" but is that some legal talk at I know the last 4 season were made and aired in the US in 16x9 HD, well they aired on the WB networks HD channels in 16x9 so I don't know whether is in 576, 720 or 1080? But what I was wondering is if it was made in 16x9 then why didn't the DVDs come out in 16x9? If it was down to the show runners choice the why int he final season with a new show runner was it still 4x3 on DVD.

I just hate when a show is made (and airs) in 16x9 then we are sold DVDs in 4x3 when the majority of TVs being sold today are 16x9.

This is also the case with the short live Australian show Canal Road, aired in 1080 HD but the DVDs are 4x3, I'll stick with the ones I recorded off the TV thank you!

Thanks for your time.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Just because a show may be shot to be "compatible" with a widescreen aspect ratio doesn't make it the correct ratio, just like in the early days of home video, just because a movie was shot "open matte" so it could be put on television (and VHS) without having to crop the sides of the image (or add black bars), doesn't mean that the resulting 4:3 image was the "right" aspect ratio.

 

[Nick Martin]

*cough* CSI season 1 which still pisses me off *cough*

 

[Alan Tully]

This argument is going to grow & grow as 4x3 tellys get thin on the ground. Some years ago I was working at a place where they re-mastered the "Minder" series 16:9, it was shot 4x3 (std.16mm). They did an up & down pan & scan. Not good. An answer may be to split the differance & do it 1:66 with side bars, plus the 4x3 version, but then TV box sets sell quite cheap, so I don't think that will happen.

If the Ward Bond "Wagon Train" ever comes out, I want it 4x3 & un-mucked about with.