What to look for in a WideScreen HDTV........

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Wil_J, Apr 24, 2002.

  1. Wil_J

    Wil_J Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok, eventually I will have about $5000 to spend on a new T.V.

    I want it to be a Rear Projection, & High Definition as well.

    But I want to know what I need to look for in a good TV, not just brand suggestions. I don't know jack $#@! about progressive scan, line doublers, and anything else.

    As I said, I will get this money EVENTUALLY, I don't have it now, so I just want to know what I need to look at and look for. Thanks for everyone's help in advance........Wil
     
  2. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Probably best to just bring the ones you like here and get a more informed opinion.

    You cannot make any objective decisions on TV quality in the showrooms anyway ... unless you know for sure the TV's are properly calibrated.

    Maybe 0.0001% of all stores do this.

    Happy hunting.

    Regards
     
  3. Alex Prosak

    Alex Prosak Supporting Actor

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    I went with a Mitsubishi 55908 primarily due to their promise of upgradeabilty for any future HD formats. It's also got a great picture.

    If not for the upgrade promise and extra $2k, I would've gone with one of the new Pioneer Elite RPTVs.

    From what I've read, there are plenty of tweaks that can be done to the Mits to make it as good, if not better, than the Elite.

    Hopefully, I'll be able to get a full ISF calibration in the near future, unlike the one I was promised by the retailer.

    Sorry I got a bit off track. Anyhow, look for upgradeability.
     
  4. Wil_J

    Wil_J Stunt Coordinator

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    What good is firewire on a TV anyway? What would I use it for? And people still haven't told me what I need to know about TV's.

    WHAT DO I LOOK FOR?? What sizes are there? It has to be a widescreen size TV, Rear Projection, and HDTV.

    Tell me what I need to know guys. Thanks!.......Wil
     
  5. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    I dont have one of these beasts, but I can give you some general features to look for:
    Lense Size - The experts claim that you cannot really display HDTV unless you have lenses that are 9", and they are usually talking about front-projectors. I think most RPTV have 6" lenses so if you find a model that has 7 or 8" lenses - it's a point in it's favor.
    Number of inputs: So you start with a Progressive Scan DVD player - you need a set of inputs for this. Then you add a HD Sat receiver or a "STB" - you need a set of inputs for this. Then you cave in and buy that XBox that will do Progressive - how do you plug it in? A minimum requirement is 2 Component inputs for HD. Any more - add points.
    Settings: Any good unit must have separate brightness/contrast settings PER input. One set of settings for every input does not cut it.
    Settings - numbers: A bonus/almost-requirement is that the settings for brightness/contrast/etc. should have NUMERICAL VALUES, not just little slider bars. This way you can record the values and get the unit back to a "known" set of adjustments. Add points if the unit has this.
    Convergence - number of points: Early units had "9-point" convergence. The newer/better units have "64-point" convergence. Look for this even if the user-accessable is only the "9-point" flavor. A ISF tech will want the 64 point version burried in the service menu.
    FireWire - This is new and not fully defined. Dont worry about it right now. There is 1 company that makes Firewire equipped display's and STB - but it's first generation and only works together. I'd avoid it until it becomes more standardized/common.
    Hope this helps.
     
  6. LorenzoD

    LorenzoD Agent

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    Great checklist, Bob.

    Which displays meet such criteria?
     
  7. Wil_J

    Wil_J Stunt Coordinator

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    But wouldn't I want to plug in my DVD player into my reciever? Or is it a nesecity (sp?) that I plug it directly into the TV to get the progressive scan picture?

    Would I need a special reciever to keep the progressive scan HD picture quality? Thanks.......Wil
     
  8. Bill Slack

    Bill Slack Supporting Actor

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    Most RPTVs have 7" lenses. A (very) few have 9".

    Why does it need to be RP?

    So, you live on an AFB... does that mean you'll be moving a lot?

    Some receivers can switch HD/Progressive signals. But not a lot. What receiver do you have (or are planning to buy?)

    Have you already invested money in a decent sound system?
     
  9. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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  10. Wil_J

    Wil_J Stunt Coordinator

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    So, you are saying that I DO need a reciever with a special ability, right? Right now, I only have an entry level Onkyo 494, but I was planning to get a different one anyway. Probably at the same time I get the new TV.

    As far as a "decent" sound system. The stuff I have is definately NOT a top of the line system, but right now, I am more than happy with the stuff I have, and really don't know if the upgrade bug will try to make me get speakers or not. I have the JBL N26's (mains), JBL N-Center, & JBL N24's as my rear's. No sub as yet, but that will be remidied with an SVS eventually.

    It is always a possibility that I will move, however with the base I am currently stationed at, you typicly don't go anywhere if you don't try to get stationed somewhere else. So I am not really worried about that possibility right now.

    Ok, a couple more questions. What is a line doubler? I hear the term and don't know what it is or what it does. Also, what is the main thing that will set a good TV apart from a just average TV.

    I want it to be RP for a couple of reasons. 1) I don't want a FP, and don't have room in my living room for a projector (not to mention that my wife would have my head if I even mentioned it)........Wil
     
  11. MarkFrab

    MarkFrab Agent

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    One thing often overlooked is the horizontal resolution. This ties into the size of the guns, but nearly every "HDTV" sold so far cannot display the full 1920 pixels of the 1080i format.

    My RP HDTV is an early-generation Toshiba - the TW56X81. It, for example, has only 1600 dpi horizontal resolution. Some "HDTVs" I know about can only resolve 1200 dpi! That might be fine for a 720p set but it's definitely not OK for a 1080i set!

    BTW, this makes searching for true "HD" switching bandwidth in an AV receiver almost a moot point. If your HDTV doesn't resolve every pixel, you can reduce the switcher bandwidth accordingly with no loss of quality on the resulting display. I don't happen to have the formulas for figuring this out on hand - anyone?

    Regards.
     
  12. Andy F

    Andy F Stunt Coordinator

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    call me crazy, but at a 5k budget i THINK you are nearing the possibility of front projection. I know nothing about this however and you may not be able to get the same quality picture out of a projector than tv at that price point. anyone know?
     
  13. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings Markfrab

    Bear in mind that horizontal resolution numbers tossed around by manufacturers are extremely misleading.

    Toshiba's 1600 line number for instance. You'd think 1600 x 1080i ... = 1,728,000 pixels.

    However ... actual measurable performance (aka visible resolution) from the same TV is closer to 1100 x 1080i = 1,188,000 pixels.

    1.2 million versus 1.7 million.

    Same problem comes from the way the spec is presented. Two ways ... and can be misleading again.

    For instance:

    Toshiba reports 1600 lines.

    Panasonic reports 850 lines.

    Off the bat, you'd say ... Toshiba hands down. But the numbers reported by Panasonic are based on per picture height (a square) and the TV is not a square. So take that 850 and x 1.78 (aspect ratio of the TV) and you get 1513 lines ...

    Now we get:

    Toshiba = 1600

    Panasonic = 1513

    Pretty much the same. Once more ... actual measureable/visible resolution is still 1100 to 1200 lines for either set.

    Regards
     
  14. Wil_J

    Wil_J Stunt Coordinator

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  15. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    An important issue for me is how good the picture quality is with standard definition material. Since most people watch cable or satellite in addition to HD sources, the sets that can deliver a better picture with standard definition material will be important for at least the next couple of years.

    Finding objective information on which sets deliver the best picture with standard definition material can be difficult.

    Right now, the Pioneer 533 is the lower price champ.
     
  16. MarkFrab

    MarkFrab Agent

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    Lies, Damn Lies... and Manufacturer Specs. [​IMG]
    Michael,
    Was I correct, at least, in that the reduced display resolution makes the need for full-HD bandwidth video switchers a moot point?
    And are there [rant]any[/rant] real full-resolution CRT-based HDRPTVs out there? I'd imagine that the digital display devices are at least accurate in their resolution specs - I mean if a digital projector says 1366x768 you know you can display a true 720p HD picture, right?
    Have you seen anything about the new Toshiba 57HLX82 LCoS unit? It's supposed to be a 720p unit (though I've also seen it reported as a 1080p unit) - but then you know how they lie. [​IMG]
    Thanks!
     
  17. Wil_J

    Wil_J Stunt Coordinator

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    I was at Sears yesterday, and asked the sales guy if any of the TV's they had out had DVI inputs, and you know what? He gave me this blank look like I had no clue what I was talking about. So I asked about firewire and got the same look. I also asked him if any of the TV's had seperate settings (Brightness, Contrast, etc), for each input. He then told me that he had NEVER heard of a TV that had that ability. *sigh*

    Just looking at what they had, I saw that they had a Sony that looked okay, but they had a Toshiba that in my opinion just blew everything else there away! I didn't get a model number, but it gives me a new question.

    Do all Toshiba's have such a good picture over all? The colors were rich and bright, while keeping detail and a crisp picture........Wil
     
  18. Sawyer

    Sawyer Auditioning

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    Mark:
    The Toshiba 57HLX82 (enlarged ) was at the CEA's 2002 CES displaying their current LCoS' chipset resolution of 1280 x 720p on the prototype. This HDTV was slated to go up against TI's DLP RPTVs and other purely digital LCoS PRTVs such as Huxian's which all will resolve 1280 x 720p natively.
    BUT, Toshiba has stepped up to plate and plans to knock the ball out of the park with the ACTUAL 57HLX82 that will ship in the '4th quarter' of 2002.
    Gary Merson researched this unit for his article in the May/June The Perfect Vison where on page 32, he states "unlike the 720p prototype set shown at Toshiba's booth, the production model will feature a three-chip LCoS engine with a matrix of 1920 x 1080, providing the first fixed panel display with 1080p native resoltion."
    So, widescreen 1080p it is. We have been having this discussion on a thread at the AV Science forum about 1080p and the other smaller 16:9 monitors that will resolve 1920 x 1080p currently.
    But the Toshiba will blow away every 16:9 Widescreen RP HDTV out there this fall.
    Hitachi apparantly is making a counterpart to the 57HLX82 called the 57HCX82 which was recently mentioned at DTVMax:
    "Hitachi was also displaying a model 57HCX82 LCoS based 57 inch rear HDTV projector that is planned for a fall 2002 introduction."
    If you read between the lines, Hitachi will probably be using the same chip that is in their current LCoS Front Projector mentioned in their website.
    So the skinny is that the next generation of HDTVs are about to launch.
    Watching TRUE high def in 1920 x 1080p at 60Hz will rock. The beauty is that you can also surf the web widescreen in 1920 x 1080 at 72Hz as well, with no burn-in. Can't wait.
     
  19. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Hi Sawyer. Welcome to HTF!
    That was a great post with lots of good information. You have just caused another attack of upgrade-itis. [​IMG]
    I look forward to your participation.
     

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