What to build (for $400ish)?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JonWB, May 31, 2002.

  1. JonWB

    JonWB Agent

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    Finally, got authorization to build a sub. This is my first crack at this, and don't expect to be able to do this again real soon, so I'd like it to be a good one.
    For about $400 for my parts budget (less cabinet), I don't expect to be able to run with some of the other subs I've been reading about here. I am thinking of a modest sized sealed sub (SAF is definately an issue).
    I'm an engineer by day and, as a result, am always looking to do something a bit different. How's this one?
    Use a Audiobahn ALUM15X (see here ) cost $150shipped
    it is a 15" DVC driver (6ohm each) that looks good in a 3cu.ft. sealed box w/ stuffing.
    Now, I could either run a 350W version of the popular PE amp (Stryke AMP350) at 3ohms, to which I ask, will it run at 3ohms without burning up?
    or...TWO of the aforementioned PartExpress 250W plate amps with each one running one of the two 6ohm voice coils. Of course all the knobs and buttons on each amp would have to be set the same (and I'd need to make room on my box to mount them both).
    I've read a lot of posts here and haven't seen this dual plate amp thing tried. I could always just get the best 2 channel amp (from EBAY) that $200 will get me, but I loose the variable boost and cross-over I get w/ the plate amps. Let me know what you guys think.
    Thanks
     
  2. Mark gas

    Mark gas Second Unit

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    I would not use a Audiobahn sub. most of their stuff is more for show then performance.
     
  3. Chris Tsutsui

    Chris Tsutsui Screenwriter

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    I feel skeptic about using that DBL drag driver for home use.

    You say different, but what's wrong with a PE 250W + tempest. Personally I don't know anyone other than ppl that post here that have even heard of a tempest.

    You've probably seen nothing but good reviews on them. There are plenty of knowledgable people and programs to provide help with a DIY tempest.

    As for amp, if you want more power than there are 500 watt and 750 watt subwoofer amps out there. But all that power needs a reason because I tried both a 200 and a 250 watt amp with a tempest and just cranking 200 watts can be loud enough to cause ear pain.
     
  4. JonWB

    JonWB Agent

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    Audiobahn markets this sub driver as a "sound quality" sub. Unlike some of their other models which are clearly stated to be for SPL. I know no one likes the "car subs" (and generally I agree), but lets just look at this sub's numbers. As posted by member "Marv" who took measurements from his ALUM15X:
    "Here are the T/S specs I promised for the Alum15X I received this past week. After about 1.5hr break-in the Fs=19.7hz, Qms=4.28, Vas=157.2L, Qes=0.484, Qts=0.5, Re=2.7Ohms, Bl=16.61Tm, Sd=829.4SqCm, Mms=399.98G, Le=2.89mH, Spl=86.1W/M, Xmax is stated as +/-19mm on the web site and because the basket has venting under the spider it is easy to see the amount of VC on the top side of the plate which "looks" to be ~19mm."
    These numbers show a driver that is well suited for a modest sized sealed box application. It isn't quite as efficient as the Tempest, so the SPL is actually a bit lower above 40Hz. But, overall, does appear to give a flatter response curve and goes lower. (When comparing sealed boxes, more or less, optimized for each driver.)
    The sub is last years' model so this is a significantly discounted price. At this price, I wonder if it may be a better value than the Tempest (or PE DVC). With a cast basket, rubber surround, woven leads, chrome trim ring, gasket, solid wire terminals, 3" VC and a pair of serious magnets.
    I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the Tempest. Lord knows, there are MANY satisfied users of this driver, I was just thinking this might be an interesting option. Hey, lucky me, the price just went up $10 on the ALUM15X.[​IMG]
    Any comments on whether or not the plate amps can do 3ohms?
     
  5. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Yes, the PE 250 variable phase plate amp will drive a 3-ohm load. Drivers used were dual 6-ohm coils ~ parallel. But your milage may vary. I had 2 sealed, 2cf volume, aprox 1 & 3/4 lbs stuffed cabinets with those amps in them. The boost was changed to around 21hz 2db. One plate amp never tripped the breaker and the other did every now and then, but only when pushed VERY hard.
    I asked the same question last year when looking at 2 drivers that came my way *extremly cheap* ($50.00) with 6-ohm coils. Could not get solid answer to the question. Those that did reply over at PE board did not know for sure and on the whole, it was not recomended. I took the chance anyways as Shivas where going to go in the cabinits a few months later. Amps worked ok for me, but as I said your milage may vary. If your looking to push it hard, it may be a better idea to stick with a 4 ohm load. Hard means just that, pushing big volume for extended periods. Short explosive bursts ~{movies}~ didn't seem to bother them a bit.
    The Alum-12X was the driver being used in both cabinits....[​IMG]
     
  6. JonWB

    JonWB Agent

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    Thanks Geoff, that is about what I figured regarding the 3 ohm question. I don't see myself pushing any sub hard enough and for a long enough duration to make it fry.

    How'd the Alum12X work for you? How would you say they compared to the Shiva you replace them with? I've also looked at that driver. The price is similar to the 15X and I've thought the 12" driver might be a bit easier to package.

    Jon
     
  7. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Well I wrote a big long deal with the drivers, Shiva and 12X and some how lost it trying to use spell check..[​IMG]
    So, in short I prefer the Shiva to the 12X. Dan W suggestions for what I built were (around the Shiva)! The 12X's just happened along and were used for 2 months till I could afford the Shiva's.
    In that size box with that amp and boost, "throwing out the breaker issue", the 12X sounded un-natural to me. Also from around 50hz up seemed colored or something. Seemed not to blend well with the mains. Design problem, metal cone, prior use and abuse before I got them, all could be factors. Never fully modeled the driver in that box. Quick and dirty sim on a very limited Java run program showed decent extension for that size encloser.
    The 12x wins hands down for the wow/cool factor but prefer the Shiva for sound quailty ~{this in what I put together from Dan W's SHIVA suggestions}~!
    If you only are building (one) sealed and not knowing the size of the room your trying fill, unless you have a dedicated amp definitly capable of driving the 3-ohm load, I recomend staying with the many proven Amp Driver combos.
    Plate amp driven, from the load stand point, go Tempest, PE-DVC's, or Shiva.....
    They will drive the 3-ohm load, but like I said, your miliage may vary! Had one that would take it and one that did not care for it when pushed....
    And we DIY like to push.[​IMG]
     
  8. JonWB

    JonWB Agent

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    Thanks for the reply Geoff. One of the tricks to DIY speakers, of any sort, is that (generally) all we have to go on before we build them is what the simulation tells us looks good. There is a lot more to the quality of sound for a speaker/sub than what the program says. It's what you ears say that matters most.
    One other driver that has caught my eye is the new 12" driver from PE, the Dayton Titanic MKII. According to WinISD and PE's recommendations, this driver looks well suited for a small (2cu.ft.) sealed box. Higher SPL and deeper bass than the Shiva. Costs more though...
    Also, just for good measure, is the Stryke SAL SB-12 (made by Lambda Acoustics). For the detail on this driver you'll need to dig your way to it through Styke's site , (not too tough to find). This driver looks GREAT in a simulation with a 6cu.ft. box, but when you bring the box size down, it starts to model more like the MKII (at a greater box size). But, if you can handle a 6+cu.ft. box (it takes 8.5cu.ft. to get a Q of .72 (unstuffed)), it looks really nice for deep bass and SPL in a sealed enclosure. A bit pricey at $179ea, but hell what's another $30 right? [​IMG]
    I anyone has experience w/ either of these drivers (or any other suggestions) I love to heard about them. I want to start ordering parts this week!
    Thanks.
     
  9. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

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    Jon
    Just noticed that your a new poster though you have been lurking for some time. Many do..[​IMG]
    Welcome to HTF Jon!!!
    You might try the search function for the driver & or design that intrest you. Much information and data dealing with all the drivers mentioned in this thread are to be found. Be prepared when looking at the Tempest and Shiva as they are probley the kings of DIY Bass here.
    May even give you some other ideas to toss around. Some of these guys are serious Bass heads...
    The newest Titanic-MKII is a great driver for those looking for the smaller footprint. It's a good looking driver to boot. It's been on sale a couple of times for 89.00 if my memorie serves me right. Introduction sale and also a weekend or one day sale.
    Look around and enjoy all the information & great people that make up this fantastic forum..
    Regards
    Geoff
     
  10. JonWB

    JonWB Agent

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    Yep, I'm a HTF Lurker[​IMG] ! There is a lot of great info out there, I've been doing a lot of looking with the old "Search" utility. WOW, a MKII for $89! That'd be great. If they'd run that again I'd drop two sealed enclosures in opposite corners of my family room (16x23x8 and (basically) open into the kitchen) with a pair of the PE 250W amps.
    In my searching I came across the Styke Thunder 12.3 setup, using the SAE1204 & 2-15" PR's. Yet another angle to consider. Too many choices!
    I guess like anything in life, if I can narrow my choices down to where which ever direction I go, I'll be making a good choice, everything'll be alright.[​IMG]
    Jon
     
  11. Bryan Michael

    Bryan Michael Supporting Actor

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    i am bulding my first sub i just got done with a lite box for my posters i am going with a tempest sono tube and i am bulding a tabble out of it it is 5 ft long and 18 inch tube the over all dimenton will be 22 high and 20 wide and 5 ft 23 inches long and if i want to add a seccond one i just have to lift off the top and buld a secc ond and koin the 2 toghter i am going with a tempest tuned to 16 hz and a 250 plate amp i am replaceing my velo ct 120 it is a great sub but i just want a better one
     
  12. Jack Gilvey

    Jack Gilvey Producer

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