I went out to eat earlier this week and the restaurant I went to had a cover band playing. Now the band was fine but what I noticed is how alive it all sounded. I have never had that "alive" experience at my house. I own a Denon 3802, Paradigm monitor 7 speakers, and a Hsu vtf-2 subwoofer. I am willing to upgrade to whatever it takes just to get that feeling in my house, as long as the price is not astronomical. Now my question is is it my speakers, my power I'm feeding them, or is it sacd I need to get? I have never heard sacd. I greatly appreciate your input. Thanks. Patrick
Patrick, Partially it's the recordings, especially of more recent/popular music which tend to be compressed. Poor CD's notwithstanding, to get the most "live" sound at home it helps to have a dynamic, uncompressed stereo system. That usually means larger speakers (horns maybe). With your current speakers a new amplifier might help a little bit, but it's hard to tell. I've never heard the Monitor 7s but I have similarly sized tower speakers, and a bigger amplifier does sound stronger and more lively. Can't speak to the benefits of SACD though - I've never tried it. I know just that feeling you're talking about, and I'm finding out that getting that feeling from a stereo system is kinda hard.
I have an analog 2 channel music system consisting of both phono and CD analog inputs, into an Integra PreAmp, into a CineNova Power Amp, driving VMPS RM40 speakers. I use CARDAS Golden Section Interconnects and Custom speaker cable to Bi-wire the RM40s. It comes closer than anything I have ever heard, but it takes meticulous set up and precision convergence. It actually didn't cost that much when you consider how it sounds. I have never personally heard anything that comes as close in detail, soundstage and dynamics. Regards, John
mirage omni polar speakers create a live sound very well, i played some jazz tunes on them, and there was literally an invisable band playing about 2 feet behine directly in the center of the two book shelfs. they arent too much either, i think they run about 600 a pair retail. the omni polar bookshelfs are unlike regular speakers, the sound is very dispersed and very little of the sound is direct, it literally creates a sound bubble around the speaker rather then firing the sound in the single direction. because of this, it creates live sound very well. if yoy have a lot of money, try the high end energy veratas floor stnading speakers. the imaging is precise, i had a rep at good guys play a track, and the guitarist was directly in front of me, when the speakers were literally 20 feet apart. i looked at one speaker and curved my hands over my ears to only listen to the left speaker, and the guitarist still orginated in the middle of the speakers, i was blown away.
I added a Carver AV-705x 5 X 125 wpc amp to my system last year!! I bi-amp my Monitor 7's....and the sound just JUMPED out of these babies after that. And my receiver is no slouch!! The amp made a HUGE difference!!
maybe you need to start looking at your room and speaker placements with thoughts of improving their position as well as considering room treatments.
Not many electrostatic fans here? Nothing in my hearing has ever come as close to capturing the "you-are-thereness" of live chamber music as a good pair of well-designed electrostatic speakers (Quads, anyone?) mated with a vintage subwoofer such as the legendary Janis W-1. Replicated the live sound of music has been the holy grail of home-audio designers from the get-go. And no amount of money and good equipment ever seems enough. But, then, you all know that.
martin logan, thiels, VMPS and magnapan have always done it for me. But to Chu's point no matter what speaker you use the room has to be setup right.
Another vote for Klipsch. If you're trying to reproduce the sound of a cover band in a lounge, you need high efficiency speakers. Now if you're trying to reproduce the BSO in Symphony Hall...I guess that's not what you're looking for. Go Klipsch.
Thanks guys for all of the responses. I went out yesterday and listened to some Klipsch RF-7 and the Martin and Logan Odyssey speakers. The klipsch sound so detailed. Much more detailed than my monitor 7 speakers. The dealer had them next to some B & W speakers, forgive me I don't know which model but he said they were in the same price range as the klipsch, and they sounded so muddy in comparison to the klipsch. As great as the klipsh were I was totally blown away by the Martin and Logan's. OH MY GOD!! Thats the sound I'm looking for. Where have you been all my life? I have never heard a sound so light and transparent. What I did notice was when I stepped out of the sweet spot the sound was not as good. But so damn what. Screw whoever is not in the sweet spot(ha,ha..). I don't care how long it takes I will own these speakers, or something similar to them. Thanks again for all of your help. Now who needs a kidney for about $6.000?
I'm not saying that you shouldn't consider the ML's or for that matter Magnaplanars and a host of other electrostatic type units, just keep in mind much of their performance is contingent upon the type of room that they're in. Also you might want to consider inserting a Behringer UltraQ into your system as for well under $150, it gives you that 'tube' sound and doesn't compromise your existing setup.
Patrick: In addition, you will only reach the "live" levels you seem to crave (the point of the thread, I think) in your dreams with the Logans.
Tony is correct, the MLs won't play as loud as some other speakers, or in some cases the real event. Which takes us back to my original suggestion of VMPS RM40s. (or even the RM2) They have the same "detail" and resolution that you found so mesmerizing in the ML, are easier to place, and cost about $2000 less. (RM2s $3500 less) Additionally they will play lower 24Hz compared to 35Hz, and they are "tuneable" to match your room and electronics. The MLs will also require some pretty hefty (and quality) amplification to sound their best. (nothing wrong with that) My biggest problem personally with speakers that offer the "airiness" of the MLs, is the way the speaker interacts with the room. It is somewhat of a Dipolar radiation pattern and the direct backwave bounces off the front wall (unless it is heavily sound deadened.) This, at first, offers an incredible "open" wall of sound, but to a critical listener, eventually you begin to hear that you are listening to the room, and not the original recording. As an Audio Consultant, I have clients who just love the sound of Wraith, Magnepan, and ML speakers and I have had a few pairs myself, but for reproduction of the original event, I haven't heard anything that approaches what I currently have. That said, you should certainly get what sounds best to you and only consider our advice as road signs. We aren't driving on this trip. Regards, John
