What receiver would best match Klipsch Reference series?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JasonWaddington, Aug 20, 2002.

  1. JasonWaddington

    JasonWaddington Stunt Coordinator

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    Yamaha? Kenwood? Denon? HK?

    Any suggestions? I have a Yamaha 480w 6.1 receiver right now which sounds good with them. But I want to make sure I have the best combo...
     
  2. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    Go with a warmer amp like HK, Denon or Marantz since Klipsch's are considerably bright. Dont go with Pio/Elite, Yamaha or Onkyo.

    MHO.
     
  3. Mitch E S

    Mitch E S Stunt Coordinator

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    Jason,
    Go enjoy your system and stop worrying if it could be better. If you spend enough money it can always be better, but where do you stop? You admit it sounds good to you... great, beautiful. You're better off than the rest of us here that are never satisfied with what we have.
    Here's a little story...
    Three and a half years ago I put together a system with the Klipsch Ref series and the most current Onkyo receiver. It sounded really good to me (especially compared to my old Pioneer receiver and JBL satellites from Best Buy). But I started reading these forums and buying magazines and convinced myself that I could do better. Eventually I went to see two guys who do custom installs. I spoke to them for about 2 hours and they kept asking me "well what don't you like about your current setup?" The only thing that I could tell them was that I couldn't hear dialog in movies as well as I'd like to. Their answer was always about my room not my equipment. It was obvious to them that I just wanted to buy something new and didn't really want to find out what was wrong with my room and fix it. They finally said they usually recommend Yamaha receivers and that was the end of our conversation.
    Fast forward to the present. I've spent about $11,000 on new speakers, sub, pre/pro and amp. Put all of the old stuff in storage for a year and a half. I'm thinking that it sounds pretty good now. Eventually I build another room in the basement for my kids to use. Later I decide to switch rooms with them to have more privacy. Now I decide.. hey, I can set up my old HT in the old room for the kids (just like it used to be).
    I get done setting up the old room with the old equipment and try out a few DVDs and CDs and I was floored!!! My old stuff sounded GREAT!!! I'm not saying its better than all the new stuff but its pretty damn good!!!
    Bottom line is... the only significant improvement is the new subwoofer over the Klipsch KSW12s... the rest was mostly a waste of time and lots of money.
    My advice, stop reading these forums and go buy some movies or music and enjoy them[​IMG]
    One more thing... don't take any advice from anyone here... we're all goofy [​IMG]
     
  4. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    I agree mostly with what Mitch said esp the last one about us all being goofy. Seriously if you want to be happy in life stop visiting these forums. We all dont have much life outside and compensate it by hanging out here[​IMG]
     
  5. Lyle_JP

    Lyle_JP Screenwriter

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  6. Yogi

    Yogi Screenwriter

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    Well Lyle, I have always found elite to be a tad lean and forward compared to denon or marantz. But you could feel that its neutral. We all hear differently. If you tried Marantz in your system I am sure you will feel that it sounds dull and lifeless. Maybe you hear differently in the upper end of the spectrum. Try a Marantz in your system and tell me how you feel. I can bet you that you wont feel its bright but will certainly feel its more rolled off compared to your elite. All I mean is a Denon or a Marantz is more rolled of in the upper end resulting in a warm sound while a yamaha or pio is not as rolled off. Hope that is clearer.
     
  7. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Jason

    There is more to the sound of receivers than bright/warm. By having had an opportunity to have 3 receivers in my house at one time, I found out that there are a variety of subtle differences in their sound. One had heavier bass, another noticeable "punch" and sound staging, the third had the most natural sound. I firmly believe that no one receiver or amplifier combines all the best qualities.

    In conclusion, unless there is something clearly missing from your sound, stick with what you have.

    Artie
     
  8. JasonWaddington

    JasonWaddington Stunt Coordinator

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    I find that I cant hear dialog in movies very much at all, and I have all Klipsch RF-3II's up front, inluding the center. I get tons of sound from the sound effects, but voices are far too subtle. I turn the center volume up, but that gives me more effects out of the center and more dialog at the same time, which is pointless...Help?? is it the receiver?
     
  9. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Are you calibrated with Avia? if not that's a cheap $50 upgrade you could make. $50 = Avia + Spl meter.
     
  10. JasonWaddington

    JasonWaddington Stunt Coordinator

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    what does avia do?
     
  11. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Avia is a calibration disc. If you don't own a copy you should along with an SPL meter.
     
  12. Mitch E S

    Mitch E S Stunt Coordinator

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    Jason,
    In my ridiculously long story above I too complained about dialog from the Klipsch Ref (and I have the RC3) being difficult to hear. I have two suggestions. (1)Move the front speakers as far away from the back and side walls as is aesthetically possible (2 feet minimum). (2)If you can't move the center that far out, ELIMINATE IT!!! I'm becoming more and more convinced that it is not only unnecessary but causes problems and is just an excuse to get more of our money [​IMG]
    You still need at least an SPL meter (most receivers have test tones to calibrate) if not AVIA (do a search, plenty of info on it)
    Good Luck, Mitch
     
  13. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    let us know if there was any improvement in the dialog after you've calibrated. i can't see you having any problems with your existing setup, in fact i dare say it can play quite loud no?
     
  14. JasonWaddington

    JasonWaddington Stunt Coordinator

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    yea its loud, just the dialog seems to get lost in the sound effects, thats all.
     
  15. Philip_T

    Philip_T Supporting Actor

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    Jason,

    This may be a stupid question on my part, but with having an RF3-II for a center speaker, do you have to place tv on a 40 something inch stand to have clearance over the speaker. The only reason I ask is that I too have the Klipsch ref series and those RF3's are pretty tall. Just curious.

    I use the RC3II for the center placed just below the tv and forward about a foot and I get pretty clear dialog from movies. Maybe your room dimensions or acoustics are causing the effects to drown out your center. I know that I had to experiment quite a bit with speaker positioning and room layout before I got the sound I knew my system was capable of.

    As Mitch said above, (paraphrasing here) if it aint broke, dont worry. Maybe its just the room acoustics. Who knows, you may be able save several hundred dollars just by re-arranging your furniture. Its worth a try, no?

    Regards,
    Phil
     
  16. JordanS

    JordanS Second Unit

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    I have my RF-3 II's with a Yamaha HTR-5460.

    It sounds really nice.

    I am selling my Yamaha for $250 because I just upgraded to Adcom seperates.

    Good luck.
     
  17. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Jason

    Using a big floor stander for a center is inherently problematic unless you are using a front projector for your video. My guess is you do not use a front projector. So where do you put a big floor stander with a tube set or a RPTV? Can't put it on top of the TV. Phil seems to get good results with the speaker a foot in front of the TV, and below the TV. It makes sense that that kind of arrangement helps. If you can try out a similar set-up it might do the trick for you.

    Some people put a lot of emphasis on using identical speakers across the front, but most people go with a horizontal center because of the placement problems if you don't have a front projector. Horizontal centers involve some compromises. The TV reinforces low frequencies where you don't want them reinforced, in the male voice range.

    In any case I doubt you want to dump the RS3-II for a horizontal center. Although adding another RS3-II and using 2 of them for your surrounds and getting a horizontal center would be a costly but progressive way to go.

    I have seen frequency response curves for several of the Klipsh centers and the clearest is the SC-1. About $180 delivered.

    Your complaint is also a software issue. Soundtracks often have very loud effects compared to the dialogue. I have found it workable to use the volume control to bring up the dialogue scenes and turn down the explosion scenes. Not a very elegant solution. This leads to 2 other ideas.

    THX receivers have dialogue equalization built in that brings up the dialogue. THX also recommends a vertical center speaker with narrow vertical dispersion. You don't need a THX center to get some of this effect. Most centers have two cones plus a tweeter in the middle. Setting it vertically narrows vertical dispersion. But the appearance of a center speaker standing vertically on the TV is not so hot. It also raises the level of the tweeter over your head which is not good.

    In my experience a THX receiver will display how much dialogue enhancement it is applying. It goes at least as high as Plus 4. Perhaps as high as +6. THX receivers can be had for $600 or less. Perhaps you could arrange for an in-home demo to see if THX helps you with dialogue intelligibility. THX claims, "clear dialogue reproduction even in the midst of complex sound effects".

    Let us know how you are making out.

    Artie
     

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