What M/C albums sound like they're were originally concieved as M/C ?

Discussion in 'Music' started by Rachael B, Oct 4, 2004.

  1. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    3 quickly come to my mind: Zappa's Quadiophiliac, Flaming Lips Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots, and Hiromi's Brain.

    Forget old stuff that's being mixed to M/C unless it's stuff like Zappa's that was born in the very brief quad thang in the early 70's. What new albums sound like the stereo mix was just an obligatory thing offered up with the multi-channel pie?
     
  2. Phil A

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    Well besides stuff like the Alison Krauss live album, "The Window" by David Elias comes to mind. I actually prefer it in multi-channel vs. 2-channel which does not happen all that often. Greta Matassa "Live at Tulas" is another one that sounds that way. Perhaps even "Blue Country Heart" might be along those line too?
     
  3. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    Phil, It's been quite sum-whilst since I listened to Blue Country Heart in M/C. I usually remember if the M/C mix really rubbed me wrong. I don't need much of an excuse to listen to again, anyway! I ran it in stereo a few weeks ago.

    Greta, again, eh...actually, remembering your previous recommendation, I ordered it over the weekend along with some other goodies. I'll get it soo-oooo-n.

    I like the David Ellias M/C mix too but I'm not all that moved by him as an artist.

    These are hard to think of....for me. [​IMG]
     
  4. Phil A

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    Rachael, there aren't that many multi-channel mixes I can say I love on hi-rez. On most things I prefer the 2-channel. I do like Blue Country Heart in multi-channel. When I was at the Home Entertainment expo in NY a few months before the release of either the Stones stuff on SACD or Jorma Kaukenan's album Sony had a demo room (that would hold about 20 people) with 5 Eggleston speakers, their XA-777ES, 5 Manley Neo Classic monoblocks, top of the line Transparent wiring to demo SACD. So I suspect that at least Blue Country Heart was something that they had multi-channel in mind during the recording process. It is one of the few non-classical or jazz DSD recordings. The Tilson Thomas SF Symphony Mahler recordings are probably another one of those that had multi-channel in mind. I have the 1st and 6th symphonies. Some of the old RCA Living Stereo classical stuff is in 3-channel. I have a few but not listened yet as I just got them back from a friend I lent them to along with the 2000ES CD/SACD changer I bought for the basement as he sold his high end player and may be interested in the 9000ES. I suspect those Living Stereo things might be good in 3-channel The David Elias disc is one of those I actually like the multi-channel more than the stereo. I have a few of the Telarc classical recording that might be the same way. Hopefully, engineers will thing about these things when musicians are actually in the studio vs. an afterthought.
     
  5. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    Phil, it is hard to name some...[​IMG]

    People of the world attention, this is a voice speaking to you from millions of millimeters away. Doesn't anybody else have a feeling about this? Or, is this a very small field to be standing in?
     
  6. Rich Malloy

    Rich Malloy Producer

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    Not long ago, I would have said the same about "Yoshimi", and then I started listening to the stereo track! Long story, but basically equipment issues forced me to try out the stereo track... and now I find I prefer it. Particularly "Fight Test", which never sounded very good in surround on my rig, but I think the whole album has a greater impact in two-channel.

    I switched to the multichannel mix recently... and then switched back!
     
  7. Phil A

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    Rachael, I also like some of the AIX Records stuff I have on DVD-A. Definitely top notch recordings. The last thing I got was Guitair Noir by L. Juber. The good point about stuff like that is that it is nice to have some great recorded demo stuff. The bad point is that they are not commercial releases by mainstream name artists.

    If I find a multi-channel mix that I don't dislike, I will play it on one of my other systems to see it it is just my main system. My bedroom system has 3 identical speakers in the front. I just finished putting together the basement system. I have yet to find one that where I preferred the stereo on my main system and then ended up playing it on another system, either my own or a friends, that changed my opinion. I have had things grow on me that I did not initially like, perhaps a bit more aggressive in the rears than my tastes, but the type of music makes it OK (e.g. Roxy Music).
     
  8. PaulDA

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    I would offer Pvt. Brubeck Remembers as one where the M/C is quite nice (even if it's a solo piano album). It's a direct to DSD recording. The stereo tracks are like sitting at a table, about 2/3 of the way back from the stage in a small jazz club. The m/c tracks are like sitting on stage with Dave, awash in the piano.
     
  9. Kris Deering

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    Most of the AIX recordings were conceived in 5.1 and recorded specifically for the DVD-A format. Amazing recordings.

    Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band XXL was also recorded specifically for 5.1 DVD-A and sounds absolutely incredible. Easily one of the best high resolution discs I've heard to date.

    I am going to have to check out the Alison Krauss SA-CD release. I keep hearing it mentioned in forums as sounding great.
     
  10. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    That one and BFB's "Swinging for the Fences" are reference quality, IMHO.

    FWIW, I recently took a listen to the 2CH mix of XXL, and found that the low end just took a walk...definitely seemed like there were some different EQ choices compared to the 5.1 DVD-A mix.

    Not sure that this has anything to do with the 2CH mix being given less attention than the MC, but on my rig, the difference was not subtle.

    BGL
     
  11. Kris Deering

    Kris Deering Stunt Coordinator

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    Does your 2-channel output have a different crossover? Sometimes people's setups are set for full range with 2-channel and they don't get the low end kick that they get with a sub in the mix.

    I haven't tried the 2-channel mix but I will check it out tonight!
     
  12. Rachael B

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    Rich, I've only listened to BRAIN once in M/C versus about 5 times in stereo. I'm just fascinated with this album. So much so that I recieved her other Telarc album in the mail today. I'll get back to Brain after ANOTHER MIND sees some play. Anyway, my brain's stille digesting Hiromi's art. She's suprised me. She's like the second coming of rETURN To fOREVER to me, so far. Have you heard AM yet?
     
  13. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    Phil, I ocasionally like rather agressive mixes. I'm not sure what pulls me in to some. I can't figur myself out so far. I've also despised many an agresive mix. Maybe my MC tastes are not quite jell'd as of yet. That's partly why I started this thread.

    I listen to plenty of not in the mainstream music. I don't have any of those AIX discs. I should try one. My Greta disc came 2-day.

    I'm gonna go do some M/C listening in about a half hour.[​IMG]
     
  14. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    I was running through my 45a via its 6CH out to my ICBM, and on the the 6CH in of my NAD 762, so both tracks should have had identical BM.

    Having said that, anything is possible. I will take another listen tomorrow as well. Not like I need any incentive to cue up XXL.

    BGL
     
  15. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    Myself, I moved to a Rel sub that "reads" the main's, L & R, and gets a signal that way, besides the regular .1 input. When finances permit, I'm gonna add a second Rel to my front centre channel. My system will truly be "5 Large" then.

    Phil can, I'm sure, can explain these sub's better than I! They seem like a good ticket for M/C to me. I'm pleased with mine after many moons. It's also the most acurate sub I've yet to own for both music and films.
     
  16. Phil A

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    Yes I can - I do you 4 of them in my main system. It is my solution to bass management for multi-channel music. Rels have 2 connections, a normal low level for the ".1" channel and a high (speaker level) connection that connects to your amp and gets a little bit of signal to mimic its sonic qualities and attaches to the Rel via a Neutrik Speakon connector (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=092-050).

    Rel is currently revamping its line. The 2 Storm IIIs which I use for stereo (and distributed ".1") have balanced (XLR connectors) and RCA connector for the low level input. I use a Strata III on the rears and a Q150 on the center. The rear and center subs are only connected via the high level connection.

    There is a separate crossover for the high level connection and separate volume controls for the high and low level connections. The crossover is much more flexible than most subs. For example, the Storm III has a low setting of 22HZ. The reason one needs this for music is that bass frequencies sum. What this means is that if in your room (and every room is different) your speakers start to drop off at 40 HZ you want to cross the sub over just below that. Otherwise, your get a bass bump with the summing of frequencies. A test disc (of bass tones) and an SPL meter can be used and an RTA is better. Anyway I've ranted enough.

    Back on subject, I listened to one of the Living Stereo 3-channel (Rubenstein - Chopin) discs (in between organizing my mad scientist cable making stuff in the basement and was most impressed.

    I'm not much of a fan of aggessive mixes. If I can hear the rears (vs. enhancing what is in front of me), I find it distracting and don't enjoy it.

    Rachael, I actually discovered something playing with the 2000ES changer before moving it down to the basement yesterday. I had a friend come over and we did experiments with the multi-channel on it (particularly the time alignment and multi-channel speaker configuration) and then compared 2-channel SACD on it vs. his Marantz 8260 and my modded XA-777ES. Everything sounded better in multi-channel direct vs. defining stuff as 5 Large (and no sub), although I still tell my DVD-A player I have 5 large since it just allows for large or small or none on speaker configurations. I guess the ideal would be 5 identical speakers but given the fact that most of us use the system for theater and music, it is difficult to put a big speaker in many cases in front of the screen. In my room (the only system that I have that could be set-up that way would be the bedroom but I have 2 ASC bass traps taking up the corners in that system), I can't really have floorstanders in the rear, otherwise I would. I'd be interested to know what everyone uses as far as speakers and bass management. Perhaps that is some of the differences besides individual tastes.
     
  17. Brian L

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    Kris....gave it another listen at lunch.

    While I still think there are some EQ differences, part of the problem is that the 2CH mix seems to be a good 15 dB lower than the MC mix. Makes a quick A/B kind of tough.

    I also tried attenuating the LFE via the ICBM control, and while it does contribute some to the overall bass weight, it does not really account for all of the difference I am hearing.

    Oh well, as for Rachel's original post, this maybe is not the best 2CH mix on a MC disc, but it sure is cool in MC.

    BGL
     
  18. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    Brian, maybe it was first and foremost concieved as a M/C recording??? I should try a Phat album. Previous Silverline experience has made me very leery of the label. That, and I've never seen it in Busted Buy thusly excluding an impulse purchase.[​IMG]
     
  19. Brian L

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    Yup, the BFB seems to be the antithesis of what I hear about Silverline. I have read so many bad things about the "Front Row Live" series that I don't think I would buy anything from them unless its either another BFB disc, or its been reviewed very favorably by others.

    I'll be curious to see if Kris hears what I hear when playing the 2 CH mix. He did mention that XXL was conceived for 5.1.

    Cheers,

    BGL
     
  20. Rachael B

    Rachael B Producer

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    Phil, I have Paradigm Monitor 11's and 370 centre and Monitor 7's for surround. If I could change anything, short of buying better speakers, I'd get two more Monitor 11's, might sum-thyme??? The only SACD player I have hooked up for M/C presently and usually is my Denon 2900. I might have used that "direct" mode when I was using one of the Sony players for M/C. I forget the terms on the Denon menu it's been so long since I set it...

    I made it my goal to avoid bass management a couple of years ago when it were SO poor in all the players creeping about the gaff.[​IMG]
     

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