What kind of speaker wires do you use ? (1 Viewer)

[james e m]

Sorry, I didn't want to start another thread for this but those of you using knukonceptz, how do you like it? I'm looking at running this in my system, any information would be appreciated!
Thanks,
James

 

[Ben Jordan]

James,

I love my knukonceptz cables. Not only do they sound great, but they are beautiful (the twisted pair ones, blue and silver). They are kind of tricky to peel away, but just ask Bill (the guy who runs knukonceptz - very nice guy) and he'll give you pointers. He seems to be available most of the time, just e-mail him.

I soldered the lockable radio shack bananas onto the ends, and they make a bulletproof connection. I like the locking ones - no worries about them being pulled out! Attached is a pic.

 

[Robb Roy]

I'm very impressed with my Knukonceptz cables, and the folks there were great to work with. I can even bring this thread back toward the original topic. The reason I found Knukonceptz was that I was interested in biwiring, but did not want to blow a ton of cash on something I wasn't sure would make a difference. Knukonceptz has high quality 12 AWG biwire that is affordable. I do hear a difference with the biwires, but not so much that a psych 101 course couldn't as easily explain. That's the point of a hobby, though -- you play. Biwiring was cheap, and easy, and FUN.

-Robb

 

[Michael R Price]

Robb,

While you're here, can you recall the specific differences you heard when you switched to bi-wiring? Also, did you try to simply use two runs in parallel without removing the binding post jumpers? Were the two sets of wires identical? Thanks.

 

[Robb Roy]

Michael,

I can't I say I do recall. The reason being I wasn't really sure I heard a difference with my speakers set to small, and that's how I run them. I used Knukonceptz bi-wire and removed the jumpers.

-Robb

 

[Chu Gai]

LOL!! just make something up!

 

[Robb Roy]

OK. The sound was fuller, with more body, and smelled like fresh cut heather on a spring day... Wait, that was shampoo. Or wine. I don't remember.

Seriously, I'm glad I did it, and would recommend bi-wiring for anyone interested in doing it, but I'm not certain I heard anything my brain wasn't making up.

-Robb

 

[Chu Gai]

Confession is good for the soul.
[c] [/c]

 

[Michael R Price]

Hah, nice. I use single wire for now.

 

[Ken Stuart]

Q: Those who are using Home Depot (or equivalent) 12 gauge are clearly of the opinion that speaker wire doesn't make a significant difference.

If so, then why 12 gauge? How do you know that 18 gauge or 24 gauge isn't entirely adequate for the application?

 

[Martice]

Good question. I eagerly await the responses to this one.

However Ken, some may STILL say that all wire affects the overall sound of their system the same regardless of the size. Some feel that the only differences in your choice of wire should be when long distances come into play.

If this is the thinking of most who choose to use the Home Depot 12Ga. cable then why not save money and use 24Ga. cable? Is it the build quality of the 12Ga. cable that makes you purchase the 12Ga. over the smaller 24Ga. cable? Does it have anything to do with the ability to carry a signal better than a smaller Ga. cable? Are you of the belief that 24Ga. and 12Ga. cable will have the same ZERO effect of a signal and overall presentation of your sound?

 

[Levesque]

El cheapo Radio Shack 12 ga. Really happy with them.

My dealer just told me he sold 5 pairs of 5000$ CDN interconnect to an American dude... let's talk about free trade agreement! LOL.

Don't believe some guys really think it will make any difference...

 

[Martice]

Hi Lévesque. Why did you settle on 12Ga. speakers cables instead of the smaller, less sightly and less expensive 24Ga. cable?

Just curious.

 

[Levesque]

Because the 12ga. were on special at Rat Shack the day I got them, so they were costing the same has the 24ga. !!!

 

[Earl Simpson]

Your rcvr manual and speaker manual give you the correct Gage wire to use for various lengths. Please use those suggestions. Other than that, it would be difficult to hear the difference. 15-25' or less is considered a short distance in electrical resistance. 100' or more can be a significant factor for resistance if you use too small a Gage of wire. 12 Gage is what I use for everything up to 100'. I would probably consider 10 Gage over 100'.
Earl the electrician
Gold and silver wire and $500 cables are nice toys if you have the cash. But 12 Gage AWG will do just fine for us poor folks.

 

[Earl Simpson]

Your rcvr manual and speaker manual give you the correct Gage wire to use for various lengths. Please use those suggestions. Other than that, it would be difficult to hear the difference. 15-25' or less is considered a short distance in electrical resistance. 100' or more can be a significant factor for resistance if you use too small a Gage of wire. 12 Gage is what I use for everything up to 100'. I would probably consider 10 Gage over 100'.
Earl the electrician
Gold and silver wire and $500 cables are nice toys if you have the cash. But 12 Gage AWG will do just fine for us poor folks.

 

[Jason.Soko]

Amen Earl, 12awg is 12awg.

 

[Chu Gai]

The reason for 12 gauge is that it's a great compromise between 'overkill' and price. It also simplifies matters by allowing the individual to purchase a bulk spool to further take advantage of quantity discounts. Further if you use a thinner gauge, the resistance/foot is higher however going to a thicker gauge while reducing the resistance/foot will interestingly increase the inductance. That's because the conductors are further apart.

A decent rule of thumb is that the loop resistance of the wires should be about 0.1 ohms. Take 12 gauge. It's got a series resistance of about 0.0017 ohms/foot so we double that to get a loop resistance of 0.0034 ohm/ft. So to find out the approximate maximum length of 12 gauge that gives us a loop resistance of 0.1 ohms we have:

0.1 ohms/ (0.0034 ohms/ft) = 29 feet

This would seem to cover pretty much all the bases...connections to the front..to the rears (although the rears are less critical).

The reason for the relatively arbitrary 0.1 ohm has to do with the neglible impact on frequency response ( down maybe 0.5 or less at 20 kHz...something you won't hear) and relatively small resistance so that there's a trivial amount of power wasted from your amplifier.

So when does all this change? Maybe if you're using something like speakers who've got an impedence in the upper frequencies that drops to an ohm or so, you might want to consider using something like RG8 to keep the inductance down. More practical IMHO is simply to have the fronts each have their own monoblock and just run long interconnects. Fortunately most individuals have better behaved speakers.

It's really irrelevent what one's beliefs are as scientifically one can say with a reasonable certainty that given two wires, of approximately equal gauge and length, there is no audible difference that can be determined. So whether you use Monster, KnuKonceptz, Phoenix, Low Voltage, Kimber, Silver, Copper, the list goes on, it doesn't matter. If a particular construction appeals to you, then by all means buy it just don't expect it to perform audibly better. Not all things that measure differntly translate into audible differences.

 

[Michael R Price]

Chu,

What about the capacitance and inductance of the wires? How about their rejection of airborne electromagnetic fields? I'm sure there are other little things to complain about, but the point is that resistance is not the only factor affecting a wire. Not that these factors make huge differences, but they do exist.

 

[Brian OK]

Use Analysis Plus Oval 9/12 biwire config. Oval 9 for center with Oval 12 jumper. All AP's use WBT bananas to AP spades @speakers. IXOS 13awg to surrounds.

BOK