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What is the deal with the Paradigm sub crossover?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by AaronNWilson, Sep 28, 2001.

  1. AaronNWilson

    AaronNWilson Second Unit

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    Im going to be buying a Paradigm Servo 15 tomorrow and I want to be sure on this.
    I can get a black servo 15 with cross over for 1250.
    Or I can get a servo 15 w/o crossover but with the maple finish for 1250.
    Should I try and get this guy to throw in the XO since it says that the servo 15 includes a XO on the website?
    Is it even possible for him to sell the servos sans crossover?
    Aaron
     
  2. Arthur Legardo

    Arthur Legardo Second Unit

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    As far as I know the Servo 15 is SUPPOSED to include the X-30 crossover unit.
     
  3. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

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    Aaron,
    Yes, you can buy the sub without a crossover and if you have a receiver with good bass management (ie. flexible crossover) then you shouldn't need it. Having said that, some people like it for the flexibility it gives you but you are definitely paying for it.
    Patrick
    ------------------
    My DVD Collection
     
  4. AaronNWilson

    AaronNWilson Second Unit

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    Patrick I have a Denon 3801 so the sub out is set at 80hz.
    I guess I could attach the sub XO off the L/R speaker line outs but then I would need an amplifier to amplify the L/R speaker lines coming out of the XO and I as yet do not have an amplifier.
    Other people have said that they connected their external crossovers out of the LFE out, but that doesn't make any sense because if your LFE is fixed at a certain frequency then you are introducing a frequency hole into the system which is bad.
    Aaron
     
  5. Ken Leggatt

    Ken Leggatt Stunt Coordinator

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    You really do not need the crossover unit with the Servo-15. You could just use the 3801 to set the crossover and volume. Most would recommend to set your subs amp wide open and let the receiver control the levels. This will let you run a smaller input signal to the sub and reduce any distortion that may be in the signal.
    If you were to get the crossover unit the X-20 has speaker level connections. You could then set your mains to large and sub to no on the 3801, this would send the LFE to you mains. You could then run the speaker wire off of your receiver to the X-20 and then set the crossover to where you want and then run speaker wire from the X-20 to your RF-3's. This setup will allow you the best integration of your sub.
    I am picking up a 3801 on Tuesday from A&B Sound and will possibly utilize the speaker level inputs on my PW-2200 to see if I can integrate the sub with my RF-3's.
    Let us know how it all works.
    Ken
     
  6. Don O'Brien

    Don O'Brien Stunt Coordinator

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    Food for thought.
    If you speak to paradigm directly, they will tell you that the Servo 15 was specifically designed with a third over crossover in mind. The x30 has a third order crossover.
    ------------------
     
  7. AaronNWilson

    AaronNWilson Second Unit

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    I picked up the servo 15 today with the X 30 XO. At the first I just ran the sub from the LFE out with the fixed X0 at 80hz. This setup was far too overpowering for the RF 3 mains and the wasn't integrating well with towers.
    I then found some more phono cables and in the current setup I have L/R line outs going into the X30 XO. The mains are set to large and the sub is set to NO. This is routing all of the bass towards the L/R speakers including the LFE.
    The speakers high pass line outs are then taken out of the X30 at 50hz (choices are 50hz, 80hz and 120hz). This means that the mains arent producing anything lower than 50hz.
    The new LFE signal coming from the X30 is fully adjustable anywhere from 35hz right the way up to 120hz.
    The high pass L/R lineouts as I mentioned before are then put into the ext. inputs of the 3801. I wasn't at first sure whether or not the 3801 would automatically detect a signal coming into the ext. inputs but it does and everything is working perfectly.
    The bass is now totally integrated with the mains bass, whereas before when I was just using the LFE the bass wasn't smooth at all. I think that everybody really should get an external XO as I cannot believe how big an improvement it made compared to just connecting via the LFE out.
    The paradigm X30 unit can be bought for 150 CAD and it is a really great unit for the price.
    Aaron
    [Edited last by AaronNWilson on September 29, 2001 at 10:41 PM]
     
  8. Saurav

    Saurav Cinematographer

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    That's interesting, it's about $150 in the USA too. Kinda unfair, but all Paradigm products are cheaper in Canada.
     
  9. Ken Leggatt

    Ken Leggatt Stunt Coordinator

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    Aaron, I am planning on getting one of those crossover units myself. I am not quite clear on how you have it setup. You are runnining the line level preouts on the 3801 to the crossover and then setting the highpass filter at 50hz. You are then running the filtered output back to the receiver and plugging then into the 3801's 7.1 eternal inputs? How does this manage to work?
     
  10. Saurav

    Saurav Cinematographer

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    The X-30 has two sets of outputs, one high-pass filtered and one low-pass filtered. The LP output is always sent to the subwoofer. If you want your main amps and speakers to run full-range, you don't use the HP outputs, and use a Y-splitter to send the pre-out signal to the X-30 as well as the amp inputs. If you want to relieve your amps and speakers of reproducing the lower octaves, you take the pre-out to the X-30, and then run the HP output from the X-30 back to the amp inputs. All of these are line-level signals, the X-30 doesn't use speaker-level connectors. I think the X-10 and X-20 do.
    Advantages: Since the main amplifier and front speakers are relieved of reproducing bass, they usually play cleaner.
    Disadvantages: Some people have noticed a certain harshness in the sound sent back to the amp through the HP outputs. Others have noticed no such problems. I think this might be an issue of impedance matching - if the pre-out's output impedance and the X-30's input impedance aren't compatible, that might affect the sound.
    I'm planning to buy one and try it out soon, but right now I have other things that are higher priority for my money.
     
  11. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

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  12. Ken Leggatt

    Ken Leggatt Stunt Coordinator

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    Saurav I get how the X-30 works, I just don't see how Aaron gets it to work on a receiver which obviously uses the amps in the receiver, unless of course Aaron has external amps but in his post he says he is running the High pass back into the receivers external inputs.
    Just trying to figure it out.
     
  13. AaronNWilson

    AaronNWilson Second Unit

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    Yeah Ken I'm not saying this is actually working YET. I have to run a frequency sweep first so that I can see whether or not the ext inputs are even being picked up.
    But Ken even if the 3801 isn't picking up the signals at the ext. inputs I would still recommend getting the box because the XO is smoother than the 80hz crossover in the 3801.
    If you ARE NOT planning to buy an amplifier get the X20 because it is speaker level.
    If you have or are planning to get an amplifier then get the X30.
    Aaron
     
  14. AaronNWilson

    AaronNWilson Second Unit

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    I was just looking at specs for the X20 and the highpass is sent out at 150hz. 150hz is much too high for my liking, so I don't think I am at all interested in the X20. If the X20 offered more options for high pass output such as 50hz/80hz/120hz/150hz then I think it would be a more viable option, but it really limiting its usefulness by having the highpass set at a relatively high 150hz.
    I may be on the lookout for a better XO which has speaker level and well as line level inputs. The way I currently have it set is fine for now, in fact it is actually rather pleasing indeed [​IMG].
    Aaron
     
  15. Saurav

    Saurav Cinematographer

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    Ken, sorry for insulting your intelligence [​IMG] I don't know what a receiver does with the external inputs, so I can't comment. I have an integrated amp with preout/main-in connectors, so the X-30 should work in my case.
    Aaron, if you're interested in other crossovers, try Marchand Electronics. I forgot the website - it's either marchandelec.com or marchandelectronics.com - they sell their XOs in kit form too, if you're a DIY kind of a person. Their XOs are generally considered really good, many prefer them sonically to the Paradigms. Of course, the better ones are a good deal pricier than the X-30.
     
  16. Jeff Savage

    Jeff Savage Second Unit

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    Aaron-
    Here is another thought to consider also. I do not know all the details on the bass management in your receiver but you may run into some problems if your surround speakers are set to small. As I understand it you are telling your reciver that you do not have a subwoofer and then setting the mains to large, running this signal to the external crossover where the signal is split with some going to the subwoofer amplifer and some going back to the receiver main amp inputs to get amplified.
    Here is the possible issue. On many recivers if you set the surrounds and center to small and you do not have a subwoofer connected to the subwoofer out, the bass will not get re-routed to the main channels. In other words the bass information for the surrounds and center will just get dropped.
    You also did not mention if you recalibrated your system using a calibration disc after you got your subwoofer. I only memtion this becasue I am running a SVS 20-39 sub/Hafler amp off the LFE channel on my HK 510 xo'd at 80Hz with my RF-3's and everything is very balanced. I used the Video Essenitals disc for calibration.
    I don't know if this is how your receiver works but it is just a thought.
    Laters,
    Jeff
    [Edited last by Jeff Savage on October 01, 2001 at 02:37 PM]
     
  17. AaronNWilson

    AaronNWilson Second Unit

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    I dont have an SPL meter or a video essentials disc. What Im hearing right now sounds great to me, so I can't really justify getting a 70 dollar SPL meter right now.
    Aaron
     

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