WHat is the best Pre/Amp combo for 4K? (1 Viewer)

[Evan S]

Paging Michael Morhmann!!! I believe he demoed the Bryston in his own system and preferred the Anthem for sound quality over the Bryston. You might want to send him a PM.

I would like to see a comparison with the anthem, denon and pioneer with separate amplification then well see the denon and the pioneer outperform the anthem its obvious the avm 20is a nice pre pro but can not compete with the flagships as far as features and processing goes the article said it clear

What good are features and processing when they produce inferior SOUND? The Home Theater showdown clearly stated that the Anthem combo SOUNDED better than the two flagship receivers and in my mind, that's all that matters. You can say "lets see the flagships with exterior amplification". That's a load of crap. They are flagships for a reason. The amps in a flagship should be more than capable of driving 98% of the speakers out there. The showdown was legitimate based on price considerations. If you are going to buy a flagship strictly to be a dedicated pre-pro, why not just go separates for 66% of the cost? Because the price of either the Pioneer or the Denon with an external amplifier will put you in the $5500-$6000 range. Foolish if you asked me.

Putting flame suit on now. Oh yeah...proud owner of the Anthem AVM-20 and MCA-5 combo. Got both pieces for less than $3500 combined.

 

[Geo]

Let's see, what is the best Pre/Amp combo for 4K or less?
Denon 5803

geo

 

[etsoi]

My dad is using a set of Bryston gears and I like the sound of it. I haven't really listen to anything from Anthem yet. I did have a chance to listen to Sonic Frontier when I got my Cary CAD805B. So that's why I am going to listen to them this Thur or Fir. But I can't test the AVM20 with 9B. O well, at least I will have an idea what Anthem sounded like. I know that the 9B is CAD$1000 more but if it is better, I think I will get it. By the way, what is the different between MCA50 and MCA5? Which is newer? Thanks again!

 

[Bob Wilson]

The review of the AVM 20 / PVA 7 in Stereophile guide to home theatre said that the PVA 7 was comparable to the Bryston amps for half the price. Unless you have some unbelievable speaker you simply are not likely to hear the difference. In Canada list on the 9BST is somewhere north of 5,000 and the pre is north of 6000. You won't find much discount on the Bryston either so the price difference gets bigger when you compare street prices.

 

[Patrick Williams]

The review of the AVM 20 / PVA 7 in Sterephile guide to home theater said...

Why is everyone here constantly quoting the (sometimes very) abbreviated reviews in the home theater rags? Listen and look at things for yourself.

I have never heard the Anthem PVA 7 amp. I'm sure it's a terrific value for the money. But I don't believe it's serious competition to the Bryston 9B-SST. It uses one transformer for all seven of it's channels, while the Bryston uses seperate ones for each of it's five channels. I'd love to see the spec for all channels driven on the Anthem vs. the Bryston.

 

[etsoi]

Actually the separate transformers for each channel is one of the reason I am interested on the 9B SST and why I am more interested on the MCA more than PAV series. I know it is more expensive, but I think that you won't change your power amp that often, you can use a power amp for more than 10 years without upgrading. But not so with Pre, because you have to upgrade to a new formats every now and then. I am really looking forward to listen to them soon. I haven't really go audio gears shopping for a long long time. Of course if money is no object, I will go for 5 to 7 mono blocks LOL. And for receivers, at first I just wanted to build a ok HT systems, so I got a Sony receiver and when I am ready to upgrade, I found out that I have to buy a whole nw set of gears. That's why I am shooting for some mid to high end gears this time, at least they can upgraded.

 

[Marc_E]

Damn it! I hate when my stupid computer acts up and I loose the long post I just typed out!

Gil,
I have not auditioned any of them. BAD!! Well, maybe not. My time is very limited. My wife is an EM physician, I have a lot of resposibilities in raising our 3yr old daughter, 11yr old lab and work full time. It is really hard to justify to my wife and self to go to a dealer on the rare times that we are all together. So, I based by decision on tons of reviews, owner's opinions (lots with similar gear), feature sets and budget allowances. The AVM-20 hands down fit the bill. Don't get me wrong, the Rotel is a very nice piece and any would be happy with it I am sure. I have read comparisons between it and the AVM-20 by Evan and they were even in sound quality (maybe a slight edge to the anthem) and comarisons of the outlaw to rotel as, no surprise, about the same. That left features and, somewhat, price to decide. The Anthem has everything and MUCH more that I want.

If you want the details on where I am getting it, email me and I will let you know. I don't want to post it everywhere but am happy to share it on a one to one basis.

Marc

 

[Mifr44]

"Paging Michael Morhmann!!! I believe he demoed the Bryston in his own system and preferred the Anthem for sound quality over the Bryston."

My comparison was of the Anthem AVM-20 vs. Bryston's top of the line BP-25 preamp, 2 channel bypass mode. I figured this would be a good comparison since the Bryston SP-1/SP1.7's analog section is based on the BP-25. I did find the overall sound more to my liking with the AVM-20 (just for the record, my CDP is the Audio Refinement CD Complete, amps are Marantz MA-700 monoblocks, cables are Kimber Silver Streaks). In my system the Bryston produced a bit more bass slam, had an equal amount of detailed compared to the Anthem, but I found the midrange to be more sterile.

On paper, it would seem that the Bryston should give you a slightly lower floor noise, but I was not able to discern any difference in my system. But after having toiled to get a sound from my system I could live with for over two years, I have come to the conclusion that system component synergy is just as important as the individual components themselves. IMO.

Michael

 

[Evan S]

By the way, what is the different between MCA50 and MCA5? Which is newer? Thanks again!

MCA50 has a larger chassis (for better heat disperssion, although my MCA5 runs cool to the touch). They have beefed up the power supply for the 50 and added 25 watts per channel. They also raised the price 30%. I haven't heard many comments on how the sound differs on the 50 when compared to the 5, so maybe the 30% price increase is just for the slightly higher quality internal components. Whether you feel the price increase is warranted is your call, but the 50 is newer than the 5. You will have a tough time finding a 5 at your local dealer. Your best bet would be Audiogon.

 

[etsoi]

I know this may be a stupid question, can the AVM20 bypass all the processing circuit as a pure per amp? So does it mean that the Anthem sounded warmer like a tube amp? Who have listen to both the MCA50 and Rotel 1095? They are in similar price range but the 1095 has THX. Thank you guys.

 

[Evan S]

The Anthem has an analog direct mode on all analog inputs, so yes, you can bypass processing and use it as a straight pre-amp. It even has a two channel balanced connection.

I have not heard the 50 yet and have never heard a Rotel amp.

 

[etsoi]

Do they sell integra in Canada? I was just reading some reviews online.By the way, I heard that you can normally get 15 to 20% off Anthem's retail price rite? How about Bryston? Do they normally give out discounts? Thank you guys.

 

[wayne p]

The AVM 20 can be used in "direct mode" bypassing basically everything but the volume control for analog input. I personally prefer the the sound of analog-DSP mode which allows for bass management on DVD-A.
I have not compared the MCA 50 & Rotel. I have the MCA 5 and am very pleased with its performance. I understand the MCA 50 has even more "head room".

 

[Jeff James]

I already purchased the 5 channel Marantz MM9000 amp and I was looking for a pre-amp to compliment it. Having acquired the MM9000 amp at about half off the retail price, it was an easy purchase for me and every review I've read seemed to rave about the unit for the price you pay. So here I was with a THX ultra certified amp and I was trying to figure out what kind of pre-amp to use. The matching Marantz AV9000 was the first on my list and that retails for around $2000. It's a bit outdated but I found it perfect for my needs. It offered THX post processing which was just an added bonus. The THX stamp also meant these things were built like tanks. I wasn't all that concerned with the THX mark but it's just an added bonus.

I considered the Outlaw 950 but quickly strayed given all their design problems and the simple fact that production has been delayed. I WANTED A PRE-AMP NOW...not 2 months down the road. I compared that to the Rotel 1066 and both of these pre-amps were the cheapest I could find that seemed to get great reviews. The outlaw sells for around 9-950 US and the Rotel hovers around 1400-1600. That is a steal compared to most pre-amps. I found it difficult to even find a Rotel and would surely get gouged on pricing die to that fact.

The Marantz retails between $1700 and $2000 retail but is an older unit that some consider out-of-date. It does not offer 6.1 and 7.1/dts neo/pro logic 2. I was concerend with this due to my mid-sized listening area. I had no problems with 5 channel surround and knew I wouldn't make use of a 6th or 7th channel. So when I found the AV9000 new for under $1300, I went with it.

I've had the AV9000 and the MM9000 for a short time and I'd have to say that, for a $3000 setup, I couldn't be more pleased with the results. Again, the build quality on these units is great. The Anthems looked awesome but were out of my price range. I think something like that will be my next step up. This is my first step into seperates and it's a big step financially for most.

I'm running the Klipsch reference series (RF-3) all around. Anyone will tell you that the Klipsch setup is a power hungry monster that will gain your attention. They sound very bright and very detailed. That's what I liked about them though. I compared them to many speakers in the same price range and I found that none of the others could hold a match to them. Every detail within movies is defined so clearly. The great thing about the Marantz Pre to amp setup was that it toned down the brightness in my Klipsch a great deal. They sound more balanced and less "in your face" now. This setup added a dose of transparency to my Klipsch. Let me tell you this, I could not believe my ears when I used the 2 CH stereo mode for music. I bought my Klipsch for movies and never really found them to be pleasing with music while using an integrated Sony receiver. Now things have TOTALLY turned around. I couldn't believe the perfect seperation and smooth bass response I was now getting. I feel like I've bought new speakers almost. It seems to be a challenge to find a pre to amp setup that handles movies AND music well but the Marantz components pass with flying colors in my book. I'm surprised people don't talk about these units more to be honest. Guess they are just a bit older and people aren't considering them. You can find this setup a great prices due to that fact though. I'm sure I will be happy for about 2 to 3 years with what I have and that's fine by me.

Hope this doesn't add another decision to your plate...It sounds like you may be pretty settled on your current choices though...just thought I would throw this stuff out for other readers looking to get into seperates at decent prices.

-J

 

[GordonL]

Since Bryston is transitioning over to the SST model, you can find great deals on the old ST models. For instance, the 9B-ST can be had for $2500 USD, maybe less. Not much difference, specs-wise, between it and the 9B-SST.

If your goal is to stay at $4k for the combo, you might have to buy used. But, with Bryston's great 20yr transferrable warranty, there should be no qualms buying used.

 

[Bob Wilson]

The AVM 20 has an analog direct mode for any input. The review in stereophile Guide to Home Theatre stated that teh reviewer could detect a difference between analog direct and the same signal passed through teh A/D and back via D/A converters IF he was using a set of stax electrostatic headphones which themselves cost as much or more than the AVM 20. When the comparison was done using his speakers teh difference was virtually gone.

His other comment was that teh combination of the AVM 20 and the PVA 20 was the quietest combination he had ever auditioned. I can vouch for the low noise floor.

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"What good are features and processing when they produce inferior SOUND?"

Where did you get that? The sound of the 5803 or 49TX being inferior to the Anthem combo?

"The Home Theater showdown clearly stated that the Anthem combo SOUNDED better than the two flagship receivers and in my mind, that's all that matters."

Being an owner of the Anthem package I can see why. But if you had more of an open mind, perhaps you would hear the difference.


"You can say "lets see the flagships with exterior amplification". That's a load of crap. They are flagships for a reason. The amps in a flagship should be more than capable of driving 98% of the speakers out there."

The amps are able to drive 98% of speakers, probably more. I don't think any flagship owner would tell you that his/her internal amps will outperform external amplification.

"The showdown was legitimate based on price considerations."

And that was the only legitimate comparison. Everyone is not restricted by price.

"If you are going to buy a flagship strictly to be a dedicated pre-pro, why not just go separates for 66% of the cost? Because the price of either the Pioneer or the Denon with an external amplifier will put you in the $5500-$6000 range. Foolish if you asked me."

So, in your opinion, anyone that spends more than the price of an Anthem on a pre-pro is a fool? Give me a break, Evan.
The Anthem is a great piece of gear at it's price point, but if one is able to spend more...the quality gets better, much better.

BTW, I would take EITHER the Pioneer or the Denon as a pre/pro over the Anthem, B&K, Rotel, or Outlaw every day of the week.


Jeremy

 

[Mifr44]

"Being an owner of the Anthem package I can see why. But if you had more of an open mind, perhaps you would hear the difference."
Oh, and you being a 5800/5803 owner doesn't cloud your judgment? Please, come back to the real world. BTW, have you auditioned the Anthem AVM-20 in YOUR system? I would be curious to see a review of that.
"The Anthem is a great piece of gear at it's price point, but if one is able to spend more...the quality gets better, much better."
Much better? I seriously doubt it, if my auditions were any indication. The AVM-20 more than held its' own (and in some cases surpassed) some very good 2 channel preamps in my system, including Audio Research, Classe and Bryston. Besides, the law of diminishing returns is alive and well in the audio world. There isn't that much improvement to be gained.
"BTW, I would take EITHER the Pioneer or the Denon as a pre/pro over the Anthem, B&K, Rotel, or Outlaw every day of the week."
Thanks for the heads up! I at least know how much to value your opinion. Not at all!
Michael

 

[BobRoulier]

Michael, I auditioned the anthem avm 20 in my system as well as the 49tx with a parasound 2205 and the anthem is a great piece but I preferred the pioneer Its mcacc feature sets it apart from the anthem but that seems to be a whole different argument. Have you demoed the Pioneer or denon in your system? btw my combo cost me 4k and love it more each day
Bob

 

[Mifr44]

Bob,
I have had a Denon 5800 in my system, and the Lexicon MC-1 I owned at the time of my audition was a better fit for my system. The AVM-20 is a clear winner for me over the MC-1, so I would imagine any AVM-20/5800 comparison would be rather moot at this point. I can't comment about the 5803.
The MCACC feature of the 49TX seems to be a very popular feature with its' owners. Maybe this will trickle down to us in the prepro crowd! If your audition of the 49TX was better than with the AVM-20, then you made the right purchase. But if you are going to tell me that the 49TX will be a better prepro than the AVM-20 in all cases, then I must take exception to that opinion.
BTW, my AVM-20 and five Marantz MA-700s cost me about $4100. Add about $400 to that if I ever go with a 7.1 setup, as I have purchased two mint MA-700s that someone sold to me dirt cheap several months ago! One week later, Marantz announced that they were discontinuing the MA-700s. Too bad, it's a great monoblock amp.
Michael